OT gun weight
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Paul120
Well-known member
Don't ask me to substantiate the below as much of it if from what I've read or been told when talking to peole.
I'm led to believe that as the permitted loads have been reduced for environmental reasons (a nod to the tree huggers) to allow this and ensure the reduced loads are effective so have the targets. In the 36g days old timers talk of 90yard (82.2M) distances plus lower and higher targets. And have steadily reduced to todays schemes.
Matterelli, Bob Braithwaite, and the French guy carrega and others of that period all used 29/30" light fast guns as heavy long guns were just too slow and tiring to catch the targets consistently. Bob used to say that that was one of the mistakes of some of the US shooing team.
Somebody worked it out and concluded that to throw a target an extra 5m needs the exit speed to increase by 30%
If that is the case just adding a couple of meters to the schemes should bring the scores down just enough.
Cartridges have improved but 21g, ...Really! might as well go and do the lottery IMO as the targets will prob be have to be so slow as not a proper test of skill just persistence..
I would rather watch a guys swat 98/100 flies out of the air with a fly swatter than others sticking tails on donkeys without a blindfold then deciding whos best by by blindfolding them.
Edit.. better analogy( in my mind anyway.)
Fly swatting vs Hitting 100 nails in a plank. To make it harder reduce the size of the hammer. To find a winner, do it blindfold.
Okay.. so its late and I should've gone to bed an hour ago.. ?
I'm led to believe that as the permitted loads have been reduced for environmental reasons (a nod to the tree huggers) to allow this and ensure the reduced loads are effective so have the targets. In the 36g days old timers talk of 90yard (82.2M) distances plus lower and higher targets. And have steadily reduced to todays schemes.
Matterelli, Bob Braithwaite, and the French guy carrega and others of that period all used 29/30" light fast guns as heavy long guns were just too slow and tiring to catch the targets consistently. Bob used to say that that was one of the mistakes of some of the US shooing team.
Somebody worked it out and concluded that to throw a target an extra 5m needs the exit speed to increase by 30%
If that is the case just adding a couple of meters to the schemes should bring the scores down just enough.
Cartridges have improved but 21g, ...Really! might as well go and do the lottery IMO as the targets will prob be have to be so slow as not a proper test of skill just persistence..
I would rather watch a guys swat 98/100 flies out of the air with a fly swatter than others sticking tails on donkeys without a blindfold then deciding whos best by by blindfolding them.
Edit.. better analogy( in my mind anyway.)
Fly swatting vs Hitting 100 nails in a plank. To make it harder reduce the size of the hammer. To find a winner, do it blindfold.
Okay.. so its late and I should've gone to bed an hour ago.. ?
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Jan Powell
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Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Just as it would be possible to win the 100m sprint with a slower time than run in the prelims. So what?
I'm still not seeing any reason for the loads/schemes needing to be changed. If the intent is to make the game more difficult to eliminate the shoot-off process then where is the outcry for that from the shooters currently in the competitions who feel like they are being cheated somehow?
Or is all the whining simply because a particular shooter couldn't maintain and lost in a shoot-out round?
Paul120
Well-known member
I used to use 32g RXPs. I was on 13/ 14 at the time. I don't think they were cheap ( judging by the moaning my dad did) They were certainly effective, I shoty first 25 straight with them and they didn't beat me up like other makes.On a Monday after shooting the original 32g Olympic Trap and the SMI carts that others used it looked like I was a victim of child abuse.
Just as it would be possible to win the 100m sprint with a slower time than run in the prelims. So what?
Charlie as you would say I don't have a dog in this fight
my input is to be fair the element of fairness of competition and indeed if you want what is OT it was once a noble Olympic shooting event now to become some sort of trick shooting kiosk .
Let me give my take as best I can without a face to face chat over a bevvy or two... which would be great by the way The way I see it is that OT is a two barrel event and always has been, however what is now happening is that to get a result in the shortest possible time and to appeal to possible spectators ???? We now see a situation where it becomes a single barrel event to decide the winner and all previous scores deleted. My question is why this has to happen when there may be alternatives to this being a requirement. If you have to shoot one barrel in the final, why not make it single barrel from the outset? There could very well be situations where shooters are actually being disadvantaged by the present in as much as they are great first barrel shooters. An example, as if you need to be told, would be a situation where in the qualifying round shooter A shoots 122 with 10 seconds whereas shooter B shoots 121 with 5 seconds but shooter B does not qualify for the SINGLE barrel final stages. Or another where shooter A shoots 125 all firsts and goes to the final but only shot 13 to make the bronze shoot off but still shoots 15 firsts to win bronze, whereas shooter B shoots 121 makes the final has a good round and shoots 14 to make the gold shoot off a then wins with a 12 in the final .... who broke the most targets. Now I know you are just going to say well them's the rules... personally I think they have got it all wrong and for all the wrong reasons... but my main gripe if you will is why does a two barrel discipline become a single barrel one... I plain just don't get it.
Charlie as you would say I don't have a dog in this fight
my input is to be fair the element of fairness of competition and indeed if you want what is OT it was once a noble Olympic shooting event now to become some sort of trick shooting kiosk .Let me give my take as best I can without a face to face chat over a bevvy or two... which would be great by the way
The way I see it is that OT is a two barrel event and always has been, however what is now happening is that to get a result in the shortest possible time and to appeal to possible spectators ???? We now see a situation where it becomes a single barrel event to decide the winner and all previous scores deleted. My question is why this has to happen when there may be alternatives to this being a requirement. If you have to shoot one barrel in the final, why not make it single barrel from the outset? There could very well be situations where shooters are actually being disadvantaged by the present in as much as they are great first barrel shooters. An example, as if you need to be told, would be a situation where in the qualifying round shooter A shoots 122 with 10 seconds whereas shooter B shoots 121 with 5 seconds but shooter B does not qualify for the SINGLE barrel final stages. Or another where shooter A shoots 125 all firsts and goes to the final but only shot 13 to make the bronze shoot off but still shoots 15 firsts to win bronze, whereas shooter B shoots 121 makes the final has a good round and shoots 14 to make the gold shoot off a then wins with a 12 in the final .... who broke the most targets. Now I know you are just going to say well them's the rules... personally I think they have got it all wrong and for all the wrong reasons... but my main gripe if you will is why does a two barrel discipline become a single barrel one... I plain just don't get it.
Paul120
Well-known member
To make the 100m more interesting they should make a couple of changes;
Change the current rules where there is a selected number from heats at the start of a finsl and get to the finish as quickly as possible to the opposite.
There should be a mass start.. they could hold a party half was down and the one least smacked off his Tits declared the winner.
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Mutley
Well-known member
Sounds like it used to be shooting in Germany with Bob, I cant remember day two, on too many occasions...., cant even remember day one when Roberto Scalzone rocked up and the German club gave us a crate of beer each to see who could drink it fastest...To make the 100m more interesting they should make a couple of changes;
Change the current rules where there is a selected number from heats at the start of a finsl and get to the finish as quickly as possible to the opposite.
There should be a mass start.. they could hold a party half was down and the one least smacked off his Tits declared the winner.
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Shame those days are gone! But we now have "athletes" not just shooters by all accounts. So I doubt if gallons of beer are allowed in their diets! Roberto Scalzone, flippin eck that's a blast from the past, I wonder if he's still alive?
Apparently so ? https://www.facebook.com/scalzone.roberto
A couple of years ago he was the Qatar Trap team coach. May still be?
DT
Andrew.Addison
Well-known member
I played around with Skeet and Cylinder chokes when I was training in Spain, they can turn them to dust with a 24gm shell just as easily as anything else.
Mutley
Well-known member
Roberto lives in Qatar and trains a number of the middle east teams, his son Angelo is shooting now and winning also, he shot well in the juniors at the Perazzi.
So the old saying shoot the right bit of sky is still as relevant as ever
Out of interest do you think the way the way the better quality shells are made has any part in this or is it just a fact if you are bang on they will be blitzed regardless of choke?Andrew.Addison
Well-known member
I was using the cheapest shell they sold at Jarapalo (Rio something or other I think) so I don't really think higher end stuff would have made any more of a mess of them than the ones I were using. If you are on the target correctly then regardless of choke they will be minced. I shot a 22/25 with the skeet/cylinder choke and the only ones I missed were straight away since they needed more of a pattern to kill them unless I got them when they were not far out the trap. The big angles were no bother at all, balls of smoke.So the old saying shoot the right bit of sky is still as relevant as ever
Going by what you have said I think it would be fair to say that 1/2 and 3/4 would really be all that would be required to get those other targets? I can still understand why a really top shot would prefer to use a tighter choke to ensure the kill based on the precision of their shooting but for newcomers with a multi choked gun surely they would benefit from a much more open gun...3/8 and 5/8 ? My gin is fixed at half and full and have hit nearly every target out of the trap first tube making dust of them so I am totally confident that a miss is down to me and me alone. I think next week though purely from the point of research I may take my Browning down and choke it as you have and report back, although I have not used the gun for about a year and a half so maybe not the best of tests. On the cartridge Rio Target load ? Good cartridge widely used down here and ridiculously cheap!
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Andrew.Addison
Well-known member
I currently use 4/8 & 5/8 in my gun. Don't need anymore than that. Powders any target thrown from a trap house, first or second barrel.
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