Pete Blakeley's patented target evaluation system.

[mpmilo]

Diver682, Just put in "Peter Blakeley shooting " on You tube, I found a couple on there.

 

[Cuffers]

And now a question to all coaches: How many units of lead are shown in this picture?
View attachment 10615

Lead is all relative to the speed of the gun. Everyone sees lead differently. When I walk out of a stand and am asked' How much lead did you see?' My response is always, 'I don't see lead'.

 

[bordergun]

Luke_NL I found your original e mail to me on 10/09/23 and with your permission, I would like to post it on here so we are all on the same page and there is no question of the facts becoming distorted? Would that be OK? Thank you.

 

[bordergun]

Cuffers. It's a beautiful day here in Texas and I don't have time to answer this now but I will later. Thank you.

 

[Told you I was ill]

Lead is all relative to the speed of the gun. Everyone sees lead differently. When I walk out of a stand and am asked' How much lead did you see?' My response is always, 'I don't see lead'.

That's the most accurate and sensible reply i have seen on this whole farce or should say topic... Gizmos could help if your new to the Sport and need a basic understanding of "Lead"... but most good shooters have a certain amount of natural talent and a huge amount of experience ( Cartridges shot at a particular discipline). Which then adds up to the bottom line... Consistency of high scores with a Gun that shoots where you point it.

 

[Freddypip]

Cuffers - Very good point and I agree entirely. You might want to read this thread - https://www.shootclayforum.com/threads/noob-again-lead.69617/

Peter - If it was private email then it should probably stay private. Better to post in the open where the truth is available for all to see.

 

[bordergun]

Freddypip Sorry, but IMO this is just more irrational behavior from you to stir the pot. In an effort to discredit me, others put barefaced lies on here and you gleefully accept those lies, absolutely without any question. I offer to put the actual e mail on here in an effort to prove conclusively that what I say is truthful and correct and you object? Why?

 

[bordergun]

Cuffers. I now have time to answer your question. Of course, what you say is 100% correct. I AGREE ENTIRELY. Variation of the method used will influence the lead requirement because of variables of gun speed. In an effort to explain this, I wrote an article that appeared in Sporting Clay magazine in May 2001. The article is called "No Magic Method" and you will find it here:- www.peteblakeley.com on the lessons drop down section. The article explains why sustained lead is the chosen method by most for competitive shotgunning because the "window of opportinity" is far greater with a SL shot than with any other method. The reason for this is because at the moment of pulling the trigger, the gun and target are syncronized ie. doing more or less the same speed.

If you try to teach someone to shoot with other methods, ie swing through or pull-away, two things will vary that the shooter has absolutely no control over. These are 1. gunspeed 2. shooter reaction time. Shooter reaction time varies from shooter to shooter. If either of these things vary from shot to shot, his consistency will suffer. In other words, the shooter is learning NOTHING, apart from the fact that he can hit some of the targets, some of the time, but not ALL the time because of this gunspeed variation.

If you teach someone to shoot with a sustained method and you show him the exact lead requirement, they will very quickly adapt to ALL the other methods because the lead requirement is imprinted in their onboard computer. But if they have a coach that can't explain the correct lead in a logical way, it will take years. In other words, lets say you have a 20 yard crossing shot. A 4 unit lead, shot with a sustained lead method absolutely will consistently break that target. But if your coach tells you "mount on the front edge of the target and pull away," but doesn't explain to you how much to pull away, ie 2 feet, 3 feet....more? You will have problems. If you shoot a dropping springing teal and your coach tells you "Shoot under it, its dropping". "OK How far under it coach? "Ahah!! it's the magic of your subconsious. Keep taking more lessons. You'll get it. Eventually."

If this doesn't answer your question please let me know, tell me why and I will attempt to explain things in more detail. Thank you.

 

[bordergun]

Cuffers. My turn now if you don't mind? From what I understand, seeing the correct amount of lead is what motivates any of us to pull the trigger. If as you say, you "don't see lead", exactly HOW do you know when to pull the trigger? Thank you.

 

[Freddypip]

Peter - I don't object, I'm just making the point that the email's privacy is very important, and may, in Luke's view, override it's content; assuming he can be bothered responding.

"In an effort to discredit me".

Nothing in my post discredited you at all, I simply referred to a previous thread in which the point regarding gun speed was previously discussed.

"others put barefaced lies on here and you gleefully accept those lies, absolutely without any question."

As I have said before you have no idea who I am, what I do or do not accept, and whether I do or do not question what other people say. You may be a shooting coach but when it comes to analytical thinking I have more than enough qualifications & experience to deal with the posts on this forum and for that matter make a very successful career from it.

 

[bordergun]

Freddypip So, in other words, you are preventing others on here from reading the TRUTH? Unfortunately, I find that disturbing. And please read my post again, because if you do, you will notice that I said OTHERS put barefaced lies on here, NOT you. For someone who is "qualified" and "experienced" at interpreting "analytical thinking" you seem to have an uncanny knack of reading things in my posts that don't actually exist? Why? Are you intentionally stirring the pot in an effort to make you look big and me look small?

Perhaps you should use your experience where it's needed and not try to correct me with shotgunning problems and techniques? You obviously don't have a clue but you are willing to question my input here, even though I have told you on multiple occasions that I will be happy to explain anything you don't understand?

So, if you take the time to browse my web. site www.peteblakeley.com you will see that I too have enough qualifications and experience to deal with posts on this forum, enough expertise try to help shooters with any problems......... and I too have made a very successful career from it?

 

[Freddypip]

"Freddypip So, in other words, you are preventing others on here from reading the TRUTH?" No and I'd much prefer people read my words (not your version) and stick by the privacy attached to personal emails.

"And please read my post again, because if you do, you will notice that I said OTHERS put barefaced lies on here" - Yes, you are correct but you went on to say, "and you gleefully accept those lies, absolutely without any question." I was correcting you on that point alone thought a general statement about people lying would win no points when debating.

"Perhaps you should use your experience where it's needed and not try to correct me with shotgunning problems and techniques? You obviously don't have a clue but you are willing to question my input here, even though I have told you on multiple occasions that I will be happy to explain anything you don't understand."

I have only made constructive comment regarding your input and then for others no you. I have however questioned the way you communicate with others on the forum - a forum which is fundamentally for amateur clay shooters principally in the UK . I think your statement sums your ego up perfectly and I'm inclined to ask, for the sake of all of us amateurs on this forum, whether liars or not, if you see yourself as a god or a deity ?.

 

[bordergun]

Neither Freddy. Just someone who has a vast experience in the shooting World spanning over 50 years as a professional coach in 27 different countries. I am very, very proud of that. And you obviously accept the blatant lies that others put on here without question, because your "constructive comment" that you apply to me never, ever applies to them. To refresh your memory, perhaps you should read Salopians post #15 and then your following one #17? Quote: "I don't think Ben crosses that mark." Really? What a very short attention span you have for someone who is such an accomplished analytical thinker! Or is that just selective memory loss to stir things up once again?

And just to prove a point I would be more than happy for anyone to put my private e mails on here with my prior permission. Why? Because I have absolutely nothing to hide, unlike some who prefer to bend the truth just to stir things up and cause bad feeling.

 

[k80ben]

Holy moly the rubbish gets worse. And for miserable Salopian. I’ve never ever peddled my stuff on here that’s just you sitting in the home imagining stuff.

As for bending the truth. My accreditations are listed everywhere and my championship wins even more so. Not made up nonsense with a couple of pictures claiming to be something I’m not.

If u can’t shoot it u can’t reach it

 

[Freddypip]

Peter - to quote in full I said,

"Personally I have no problem with some self promotion provided it is balanced with posting useful information on the forum generally - Salopian makes a good point albeit I don't think Ben crosses that mark."

The context (self promotion) is pretty clear so yet again you are insulting me without due reason.

From a privacy perspective, a private exchange is a two way process and requires both parties consent for disclosure. If you are happy for that to be waived generally then you can but the other side may not. I have no interest in your private exchanges though there may be others on the forum who will ask you to disclose those relating to your banning on other forums - for the sake of your search for transparency & truth of course !!!

 

[FESkent]

Peter, exactly what is it you want to achieve or is your goal by posting on the forum?

 

[bordergun]

FESkent All I have EVER tried to do on here is try to give shooters some benefit of the many years I have been employed as a professional shotgun coach. Absolutely free of charge. But some seem to immediately resent that and I have no idea why.

Example. Someone on here expressed a need to understand gun fit a little better so directed him a lengthy article on gun fit on my web. site that MOST say helps a lot , (post #18) on the Introduction and Gun fit question. What did someone do? Put a post on there saying "time to close thread" (post #21). He then continued to flame me........ and several other top coaches including Chris Batha for using a pattern plate. Why? It was completely unnecessary.

Disturbingly, when I made enquiries, everyone I know who has any clout as an instructor World wide dismissed the guy including an excellent Italian gunfitter friend who told me "Zee guy is pazzo" and made a circle with his finger on his head. Strange they would do that, isn't it?

Exactly the same thing happened with the NOOB again Lead thread. Then his "analytical" buddy Freddypip comes on here and condones that sort of behavior?

More lessons today so I will respond again when it have more time but I hope this offers some clarification. Thank you

 

[Freddypip]

I have no connection whatsoever with Ben. I am not his buddy at all. Look through my backdated posts and you will see no allegiance whatsoever.

Are you clear on that or can I expect more made up stuff so you can ignore the 'truth' as you put it ????

 

[Cuffers]

Cuffers. My turn now if you don't mind? From what I understand, seeing the correct amount of lead is what motivates any of us to pull the trigger. If as you say, you "don't see lead", exactly HOW do you know when to pull the trigger? Thank you.

You mis-understand my statement. Of course I 'see' lead but what I see as lead may not be the same as the next shooter. I may use a different method or my gun speed could be different, my hold point might be in a different place.

I should say though, I very rarely use maintained lead because if the clay moves off its line or I haven't read it correctly, I am far more likely to miss than I would using swing through or pull away.

I hope that makes my statement a little clearer.

 

[Cuffers]

Cuffers. I now have time to answer your question. Of course, what you say is 100% correct. I AGREE ENTIRELY. Variation of the method used will influence the lead requirement because of variables of gun speed. In an effort to explain this, I wrote an article that appeared in Sporting Clay magazine in May 2001. The article is called "No Magic Method" and you will find it here:- www.peteblakeley.com on the lessons drop down section. The article explains why sustained lead is the chosen method by most for competitive shotgunning because the "window of opportinity" is far greater with a SL shot than with any other method. The reason for this is because at the moment of pulling the trigger, the gun and target are syncronized ie. doing more or less the same speed.

If you try to teach someone to shoot with other methods, ie swing through or pull-away, two things will vary that the shooter has absolutely no control over. These are 1. gunspeed 2. shooter reaction time. Shooter reaction time varies from shooter to shooter. If either of these things vary from shot to shot, his consistency will suffer. In other words, the shooter is learning NOTHING, apart from the fact that he can hit some of the targets, some of the time, but not ALL the time because of this gunspeed variation.

If you teach someone to shoot with a sustained method and you show him the exact lead requirement, they will very quickly adapt to ALL the other methods because the lead requirement is imprinted in their onboard computer. But if they have a coach that can't explain the correct lead in a logical way, it will take years. In other words, lets say you have a 20 yard crossing shot. A 4 unit lead, shot with a sustained lead method absolutely will consistently break that target. But if your coach tells you "mount on the front edge of the target and pull away," but doesn't explain to you how much to pull away, ie 2 feet, 3 feet....more? You will have problems. If you shoot a dropping springing teal and your coach tells you "Shoot under it, its dropping". "OK How far under it coach? "Ahah!! it's the magic of your subconsious. Keep taking more lessons. You'll get it. Eventually."

If this doesn't answer your question please let me know, tell me why and I will attempt to explain things in more detail. Thank you.

Not sure I actually asked a question but ok then!