Questions regarding the rising cost of shooting

[Lloyd]

I’m curious to ask those of you who have been shooting for a good few years about your experiences and perceptions of the rising cost of shooting.

It has been recently pointed out that one manufacturer has increased their prices twice in the last six months adding some 25% to the cost of their guns. It was further reviled that this same manufacturer has continually raised their prices for essentially the same product and over the past four years or so the gun in question has doubled in price, yet over those same past four years, labour and material costs, the cost of borrowing, taxes etc across Europe have been quite stable. The likely actual rise in costs is circa 10% over the past five years, so even allowing for dealer margins and perhaps needing to raise margins to satisfy a planned R&D demand or marketing push, such prices increases seem out of sync with the world, especially in post Covid world when many folks could be facing a future of unemployment, increased taxes and GDP trying to recover from the 23% slump of the covid period.

So, if you don’t mind sharing the details, I’d be interested to know what folks paid for their gun and when and what price that gun or it’s nearest equivalent is today.

I’m keen to find this out for anything from a budget ATA through to premium  guns for example a DT10/11 and everything in between.

Id also be interested to learn the same about cartridge prices, hearing and eye protection too.

The reason I’m asking this is I’ve been asked to submit some questions for an interview with an industry CEO and I’d like to see this topic of discussion confronted head on.

Thanks in advance 

 

[Jan Powell]

If you don’t mind sharing the details, I’d be interested to know what folks paid for their gun and when and what price that gun or it’s nearest equivalent is today.

Id also be interested to learn the same about cartridge prices, hearing and eye protection too.

I can’t remember exactly but my Krieghoff K80 was about £5K in 2006. To replace it to the same specification today would cost £11K.

As far as cartridges are concerned, I seem to recall 1000 mid range shells in 2006 when I started competitive shooting were around £120. That particular brand isn’t available now but an equivalent would be around £210 today. Hearing protection hasn’t increased in price to any great degree. Earmuffs then we’re probably only a few pounds cheaper than now. Shooting glasses (as oppose to eye protection) have increased vastly in price. My first shooting glasses were Oakley M Frames at around £100. My Pilla Outlaw set is now at least £600.

 

[Will Hewland]

Definitely disproportionate price rises all round, from guns to shoot entry prices. Market forces I guess.

Some examples from 2005/6 era:

Browning 525 sporter £1000 in 2005

K80 Supersport adjustable comb £6,400 in 2006

Perazzi MX12 SC3 £7,200 in 2007

Cartridges were £95 cheapest, most around £110 up to around £150 for Express Supremes. 

Registered shoot entries were £25 BO or £30 Comp mostly  

MSA Sordin Pro X headphones £155

 

[Bebo]

Paid just under 9k for my K80 Parcours about 4-5 years ago.  Got a discount on it, new, so didn't pay full RRP. Even so the RRP has gone up £2-3k in that time. Been shooting about 8 years, used to be able to get bog standard clay carts for around £160 a thousand, maybe just under.  Last lot I bought were £193 a thousand.

 

[Paul120]

I think we were in a different place prior to 2008 and had never had it so good. Economy doing well etc. Firstly the financial crash initially messed things up big time. The surge in commodity prices due to demand from china etc. and the flat rise in yearly income in the last few years in Uk hasn't helped.

 

[Lloyd]

the flat rise in yearly income in the last few years in Uk hasn't helped.

Apart from Longthorne making their standard offering guns in the £12k to £35k range, the bulk of the U.K. gun making industry are in the £70k+ for “off the shelf” region.

We are mainly looking at German and  Italian gun makers with some Turkish, Japanese and maybe Belgian guns thrown into the mix

All that said, the overall rising costs of materials due to China are mainly effecting rare earth minerals like cobalt, tantalum, neodymium and the like rather than aluminium and steel.

Capital equipment has also been quite stable, maybe something in the order of 4-5% increase YoY

European labour has seen brief spikes of maybe 15-20 points, but settled back down.

Overall the last five years have been stable with a compound inflation accounting for 10% maybe 12% prices rises. Of course lead is a little more volatile and plastics are effected by oil price, but really their effect of the final retail product has been quite small if my understanding is correct. I’m no economist that’s for sure!

These are huge price hikes, doubling in five years and 25% in the last six months when the predictions are the cost of labour going down and non essential purchasing being suppressed. Taxation is likely to increase, but borrowing is going to be cheap and more open facilities according to a statement from the Bank of England.

Now if you’d told me that cartridges were going to cost 20% more because all new cartridges must use a new biopolymer, that I could understand.

If you had a 10% price increase or even 25% because you’d kept prices more or less fixed for the last five years, I’d understand that.

If you said this new side lock gun is double the price of our well established boxlock, I could get behind that too.

But what I’m seeing just seems odd. New CEO coincided with these prices increases at one manufacturer and there have been a few changes at the same in the past few years too. My gut feeling is there is maybe pressure from shareholders to get better dividends. I dunno, but certainly I feel the hikes are unjustified for any reason other than getting a bit greedy

 

[ColinD]

They will charge what the market will pay Lloyd, they will either survive or fall.

Edit: Look on the bright side if you buy a new gun, don't shoot it to death and look after it, you could get 10yrs use and probably sell it on at what you paid for it if it carries on like this. Make of gun accepted.

 

[Lloyd]

They will charge what the market will pay Lloyd, they will either survive or fall.

Edit: Look on the bright side if you buy a new gun, don't shoot it to death and look after it, you could get 10yrs use and probably sell it on at what you paid for it if it carries on like this. Make of gun accepted.

Think that hypothesis is fairly well established as true to be honest 

 

[SIMON-B]

I remember the early 2000's when they blamed the rise in cartridge prices on the Chinese buying metals to build their Olympic stadiums, prices jumped by £50.

 

[Paul120]

Plus there's the exchange rate. Dipped in 2007 to 8 bit time due  to the Crash. Was nearly back to a similar pre 2007 level but has really badly dipped again since 2016 due to Brexit vote. It's been pretty stable at the low level since. Who knows what will happen now the rules have actually changed this month and the possibility that the additional  import admin costs etc get passed on. 

 

[b725black]

February 1988 when I bought my 30" 682 supersport they had not long been on the market, RRP was £1300, I paid £970 cash, only know this because I sold it  4 or 5 years ago and have photo's of the original receipt and insurance valuation,

seem to remember decent cartridges were around £80, white gold and supercomp around £88, of course these were the full fat 32g

then as now, the cost never bothered me I liked shooting and knew it was going to cost

 

[nohoper]

Hi in 1967 I bought an AYA yeoman for if my old grey matter serves me correct £26 or £27 I still have it hasn’t been shot for years cartridges  were rabbit clearance scrounged of an old relation all the shooting was pigeon ,rabbits the occasional foray on the marsh for a duck.I discovered clays about 1970 could only afford our club shoot once a month always went along to help as did most of the members at that time was always in awe of the local hot shots not only for the standard of shooting but how did they afford it ? Time moved on wages went up I bought my first ou in 74 a miroku ore for the grand sum of £136 the A1 Browning I coveted was £50 quid dearer shot a few clays then shells and a round of skeet at the club cost about a£1 good old Sellior and Belliot purchased in bulk by the club. The comps were mostly straw bale 30 birders with a 10 bird pool nearly all run by local clubs by members price generally low .The next few years 100 birders at bigger grounds and ran for profit bigger choice of guns and shells take us where we are today lots of great memories many changes of guns still one or two in the cabinet and I hope when we get out this problem to enjoy a few more great times

 

[Cosmicblue]

When you work with manufacturers and take an interest in the costs of operating the business the greatest single component cost that rolls up into the finished goods is labour.  Add to that state tax contributions (like NI in the UK), pensions and healthcare etc.  General commodity costs, metals etc increase in cost too but the overall price rise isn't so great.   Top end guns use Walnut as the stock material of choice, it grows slowly and thus maintains a certain rarity price premium as a result.

Back in 2009 I bought a Browning XS Titanium Prestige for £2500, 3 years later the list price and crept up to £3200.  My guess would be that shooting grounds also see the labour cost as the greatest single expenditure too.