Transitioning

[Lloyd]

Before you ask... No! Not that kind of transition 

While I remain to be convinced about spending several hundred pounds on Shotkam, I do find video taken with modern multi lens phones with slow motion quite a useful tool to show what a useless tool I am at shooting.

In the videos below, I think I got quite lucky.

I thought I transitioned quite smoothly but the video shows quite clearly I stop the gun dead! Definitely room for improvement.
 

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[k80ben]

Stopping the gun is a very important skill set to have. And more so than people think 

 

[Will Hewland]

Lloyd, I wouldn’t saying that was stopping badly, more adjusting / slowing at the kill point which is fine. In fact the worst habit is flicking way ahead. If you go to the extreme example, you can shoot diminishing lead (where you don’t stop but having got too far ahead you just slow up until the lead compresses to look right) which is often useful and I do it on long loopers sometimes. 

 

[Lloyd]

Thanks @Will Hewland

I do recognise what you’re describing with regards to slowing to adjust lead. I’ve been conscious of that on some occasions. 
 

I shot probably my best on Saturday to be fair. I still find it hard to put trust in what I’m doing and have a tendency to question everything. I had a going away OR teal which I straighted. That is a first for me. But afterwards I got a bit jittery over the idea that while I definitely wasn’t looking at the bead, I can’t even recall the barrels being there. That kinda freaks me out!

@k80ben Did you mean to write “NOT stopping the gun is a very important skill set to have”?

 

[ColinD]

Any particular reason you went for the leading clay first and not the rear one.

Now I'm no expert, read that should say crap, but going for the rear clay first imho would mean a smoother transition to the leading clay, does going for the leading clay not cause you to stop and wait for the rear one as your already moving in that direction

 

[Will Hewland]

Any particular reason you went for the leading clay first and not the rear one.

Now I'm no expert, read that should say crap, but going for the rear clay first imho would mean a smoother transition to the leading clay, does going for the leading clay not cause you to stop and wait for the rear one as your already moving in that direction

To butt in.. Its hard not to deal with the clay that you see first. Also, this usually buys you time on the second. Sometimes it makes sense to shoot the second clay first but I find it takes great discipline to leave the first and shoot the second clay you see. 

Shoot the lower clay first as that will usually offer you more time on second on some pairs.

When viewing, study the position of the second clay and where it will be after you have shot the first. Sometimes It’s not good, so the other way around is the answer. 

 

[Lloyd]

Any particular reason you went for the leading clay first and not the rear one.

Now I'm no expert, read that should say crap, but going for the rear clay first imho would mean a smoother transition to the leading clay, does going for the leading clay not cause you to stop and wait for the rear one as your already moving in that direction

That was my first approach and I missed the second (leading clay)

Basically I initially thought I’d be moving in the same direction and would be best, but it worked out that for me it became visually confusing.

I’m gradually learning to make changes when the plan doesn’t work, rather than repeat the same mistake four or five times.  I’d always assumed my missing was down to just poor skill, but beginning to understand that the basic skill is there and it’s the plan that I need to change. 
 

I had a sim pair of teal from behind trees later on that day and I missed the second teal on the first two attempts as I couldn’t visually connect with it early enough. 
I stepped forward in the cage just 6 inches or so, and it gave me the visual connection I needed and I dusted the next two pairs. 
 

These at times seem trivial things to me and I’m constantly surprised just how much a difference a few inches in hold point or kill point can make. It does help build my confidence which in itself I think is helping me to improve. Still a long long way to go though. 

 

[k80ben]

Thanks @Will Hewland

I do recognise what you’re describing with regards to slowing to adjust lead. I’ve been conscious of that on some occasions. 
 

I shot probably my best on Saturday to be fair. I still find it hard to put trust in what I’m doing and have a tendency to question everything. I had a going away OR teal which I straighted. That is a first for me. But afterwards I got a bit jittery over the idea that while I definitely wasn’t looking at the bead, I can’t even recall the barrels being there. That kinda freaks me out!

@k80ben Did you mean to write “NOT stopping the gun is a very important skill set to have”?

No mate watch most my videos the gun stops dead as it does with most top shots 

No mate watch most my videos the gun stops dead as it does with most top shots 

As most top shots I use my bead/barrel 100% of the time. Things have changed 

 

[Lloyd]

No mate watch most my videos the gun stops dead as it does with most top shots 

As most top shots I use my bead/barrel 100% of the time. Things have changed 

Well, I have said before, if the timing is right it wouldn’t matter if the gun was bolted down to a bench. That’s not skill it’s geometry, maths, physics!

Certainly what you’re saying is contrary to what many advocate.

To my mind, any movement post the clay being broken is actually wasted motion, but I suppose those that would advocate to keep the gun moving perhaps do so on the basis of that compensates for slight misjudgment of lead?

I’ve watched slow motion of George Digweed and he stops the gun almost every time. But then again, I’ve been told (albeit through third parties) that GD doesn’t recognise lead.

I suppose, we’re all individuals and as such compute things in different ways. Finding what works best, or what works best for an individual isn’t necessarily the same thing?

I continue to be fascinated with shooting for these reasons

 

[El Spavo]

No mate watch most my videos the gun stops dead as it does with most top shots 

As most top shots I use my bead/barrel 100% of the time. Things have changed 

Sorry, what are you meaning by this? I'm getting that you're saying the old adage of not looking at the barrel/bead and watch the clay as your mount should give you enough confidence that that's ultimately where you're shooting isn't necessarily right, but might be mistaken.

 

[k80ben]

No mate I’m saying I know where my barrel is all the time and on a lot of occasions I’m starting at it 

 

[Lloyd]

No mate I’m saying I know where my barrel is all the time and on a lot of occasions I’m starting at it 

I guess differences in people can make a difference in performance. 

I’m fortunate that I’ve always had reasonably good hand/eye coordination, spatial awareness and timing. 

When I’m driving, I don’t look at my bonnet or my door mirrors, but I know where they are. I don’t even look in the rear view mirror, but I know when someone is behind me as I become aware of them in my peripheral vision. Nor do I look at the pedals or gear lever (back when I used to have one that needed shifting)

I’ve worked machinery all my life since early childhood and never looked at the controls, just the work, but definitely aware of what hand motion creates what eye motion.

In my job I use two mice. One normal high resolution one for my left hand and a 3D one set to maximum sensitivity in my right hand. Again, I don’t look at them to determine what happens on my computer screen.

I know if I look at my barrels or bead I’m likely to miss. If I look at the Clay, the sharper my focus, the less I “see” the barrels and the more consistently and harder I hit the clays. 

We’re all different I guess. What works for one may not work for another.

Of course I’m unlikely ever to hit a 100 straight. Goodness, I’d be ecstatic if I hit anywhere near the nineties. 

As someone who has been shooting just a year, a 100 cartridges twice a month, I’m rather content with my current progress.

After lockdown I was hitting 40%. I’m back up to around the high seventies/low eighties, but to be fair, I haven’t been properly tested yet either so I can expect that to take a nose dive when I eventually got out into the competitions.

Thanks for your contribution to the thread  I know it will mean a lot to your many followers.

 

[Gavin]

Well, I have said before, if the timing is right it wouldn’t matter if the gun was bolted down to a bench. That’s not skill it’s geometry, maths, physics!

Certainly what you’re saying is contrary to what many advocate.

To my mind, any movement post the clay being broken is actually wasted motion, but I suppose those that would advocate to keep the gun moving perhaps do so on the basis of that compensates for slight misjudgment of lead?

I’ve watched slow motion of George Digweed and he stops the gun almost every time. But then again, I’ve been told (albeit through third parties) that GD doesn’t recognise lead.

I suppose, we’re all individuals and as such compute things in different ways. Finding what works best, or what works best for an individual isn’t necessarily the same thing?

I continue to be fascinated with shooting for these reasons

Iv herd George  say if he misses he doubles his lead  if he misses again he shoots straight at  it.  Hard to double something you don't see.   There's a lot of nonsense  said about shotgun shooting   there's lots of ways to skin a cat 

 

[DolphinCTC]

Before you ask... No! Not that kind of transition 

While I remain to be convinced about spending several hundred pounds on Shotkam, I do find video taken with modern multi lens phones with slow motion quite a useful tool to show what a useless tool I am at shooting.

In the videos below, I think I got quite lucky.

I thought I transitioned quite smoothly but the video shows quite clearly I stop the gun dead! Definitely room for improvement.
 

View attachment 8319View attachment 8318  

Good footage from your phone. I struggle to see the clays on most of the YouTube vids but could clearly see them both on yours. 

 

[Lloyd]

Good footage from your phone. I struggle to see the clays on most of the YouTube vids but could clearly see them both on yours. 

Phones these days are getting stupidly good. My girlfriend took the footage on her iPhone 11. The one with two lenses. I guess the light was very good that day and the targets not so far away.

What amazes me is that she actually managed to frame it. Watching her trying to take a selfie is comedy gold. How someone can manipulate a device and point it everywhere other than where it’s supposed to, is beyond me.  

Well... maybe I should shut up about that until I can more consistently point my shotgun to where it should

 

[DavidJ]

In my job I use two mice. One normal high resolution one for my left hand and a 3D one set to maximum sensitivity in my right hand. Again, I don’t look at them to determine what happens on my computer screen.

But you must have a cursor/pointer or object that is moving in relation to the object you are working on. Would this not be the equivalent of the bead?

 

[Lloyd]

But you must have a cursor/pointer or object that is moving in relation to the object you are working on. Would this not be the equivalent of the bead?

Yes, I suppose you could say that to be fair. Perhaps that particular analogy wasn’t the best.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

I will also assume that your girlfriend isn't a regular on this forum given the analogy between your shotgun-pointing and her selfie skills  Kudos for the filming with the iphone. I'll give it a go too but not expecting similar results...  

 

[Lloyd]

I will also assume that your girlfriend isn't a regular on this forum given the analogy between your shotgun-pointing and her selfie skills  Kudos for the filming with the iphone. I'll give it a go too but not expecting similar results...  

oh, she’s well aware of my thoughts on her selfie skills. To be honest it’s difficult to hide my amusement