Reasons for missing

Providing a shotgun shooter has a gun that is a reasonable fit and no eye dominance problems, (both of which are easy fixes) what do others think the main reason for missing would be?

Miss Reading the lead required. All this stuff about foot position hold points and pick up points won't help if you give a clay 3ft lead when it needs 6ft.

Not having your head in the game . If you can’t focus on the task in hand which is just to shoot the target or pair , or pheasant in front of you you’re stuffed . Thinking about , the last pair , the next pair , thinking you’re on for a straight , thinking you look like a clown , making sure you’re going to hit that stratospheric bird a million other things you can introduce into a situation that don’t need to be there .

Hold points and not having a full understanding of the methods

Depends on the Level. Beginners often stop when reaching the target, rush in front being afraid being to slow and so on.
But in general: Misreading the target and making the wrong decision

Ben. Don't both those things depend on how much lead the shooter needs to see?

Bavarian. By "misreading the target" do you mean how much forward allowance to give it? Or (if the target is dropping, how far underneath to shoot?

Looking back at the beads, trying to measure the lead, gun in the wrong place, being fooled by the course setter, losing focus. Thinking about the on report bird whilst the first bird is still in the air, et cetera.

To answer the question seriously – without reference to a book or lead specifically - I’m generally at 80 with 10 or so missed through my error (fatigue, concentration, failure to repeat the process – meaning hold point, transition hold point, and gun speed variations amongst others) and 10 or so due to the trap, wind, or other variations I haven’t managed to deal with on that particular clay. The second category is not an excuse but that my process appeared sound but I failed to deal with the variation when I should have done (say a 7 out 8 etc). The course setter usually gets me on a couple of traps and these can fall into either category – an error I have made reading the clay or it’s just too hard for me (at the moment).

Having said all of the above, I’m now sure I can’t answer the question myself – I’m thinking about the clay, and that’s where I ask my coach, who will see the errors I cannot and help correct them for me.

Freddypip said:

To answer the question seriously – without reference to a book or lead specifically - I’m generally at 80 with 10 or so missed through my error (fatigue, concentration, failure to repeat the process – meaning hold point, transition hold point, and gun speed variations amongst others) and 10 or so due to the trap, wind, or other variations I haven’t managed to deal with on that particular clay. The second category is not an excuse but that my process appeared sound but I failed to deal with the variation when I should have done (say a 7 out 8 etc). The course setter usually gets me on a couple of traps and these can fall into either category – an error I have made reading the clay or it’s just too hard for me (at the moment).

Having said all of the above, I’m now sure I can’t answer the question myself – I’m thinking about the clay, and that’s where I ask my coach, who will see the errors I cannot and help correct them for me.

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So are you saying you never miss though getting the lead wrong ie misreading the target?

As posted I was trying to answer the question without reference to lead (or books).

Yes – I do miss because I misjudge lead and/or misread the target. I would treat those as separate issues as you can misread the target and get the lead right but that's still a miss.

For a root cause analysis, concluding the lead was wrong is only the first step and a relatively obvious statement - any miss is because the ‘lead’ was wrong & the shot was put in the wrong place. The question becomes why that happened. More often than not my miss is after a successful hit(s) so I know the lead required & so it must be something else. If I have got the lead wrong on the first clay or pair I often correct it successfully with the second pair. I might drop 4 or 5 (max) due to issues with lead whereas 15 due to other factors, half of those I can identify when I leave the stand. I am much more bothered by the 15 misses as those lost through misjudged lead are, for me, getting smaller with time.

Given Bordergun’s experience I would be interested to know why he misses sporting targets – it can't be lead related.

bordergun said:

Bavarian. By "misreading the target" do you mean how much forward allowance to give it? Or (if the target is dropping, how far underneath to shoot?

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Speed, angle, distance. Then to make a decision. How much gun speed? Shoot it early or late? Swing through, pull away?
Or follow the line of the rabbit longer? Perhaps it bounces? Or quick swing through? The subjective impression of lead is just one part of the shot.

I miss a fair old amount of clays because when I start having a good day I think that just because side on, in a dark light I look like George Digweed I am. And I am definitely not, so when I start trying to shoot from the hip or talk while I am shooting I miss . But on the odd occasion that it works out it’s just about worth it

Peter - Can I ask why you started this thread ?

Oh God. Wonder if someone could talk Shotgunworld into reinstating this PIA. Perhaps we could have our forum back then!

bordergun said:

SBL Of course we are. So why try to deliberately stir the pot by putting a negative, sarcastic post on here like you did

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Negative, sarcastic or as some would consider, just having a light hearted joke.
There's no doubt in my mind where this thread was targeted to go.
Fill your boots, Pete. Age and experience should help you at times like this, you can choose to ignore those qualities if you wish.

SBL If it was meant as a light hearted joke then I sincerely apologize. But many of these Internet forums are filled with intentionally belligerent comments from some and it dissuades meaningful discussion. Age and experience is also conveniently ignored by some for the same reason.

So, of course you are right and there was no doubt where this thread was intended to go. But despite asking this question multiple times over many years and never receiving a satisfactory answer, let's try this another way:-

How do shooters learn how much lead to give a moving target?

bordergun said:

How do shooters learn how much lead to give a moving target?

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oh that’s easy 4/3 x Pi x r cubed on every stand in the correct place.

bordergun said:

Freddypip I don't miss. I might miss an occasional long one that is pushed out of my pattern by a puff of wind, but everyone misses those. That's why SC will never be an Olympic discipline. But I don't miss anything by reading it wrong, so you are correct in your assumption.

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That's absolute rubbish. If you never miss read a target you would be a multiple world champion. Everyone miss reads a target.

Someone reminds me of the toaster in red dwarf



anyone like any toast, or are you a waffle man?