ABT Targets - Distance or speed?

[Paul120]

OK chaps here's something for you to mull over.  

All the CPSA cut off percentage points for Average Issue 37 - 45 for ABT, UT and OT.  DTL doesn't interest me so couldn't be bothered to include that.  

From a brief perusal I notice that the cut-off for ALL disciplines are on a downward spiral.  Now OT and UT haven't had any rule changes to affect the height, distance or angles of the targets thrown. 

Please feel free to discuss.

CPSA Classification % No 37 - 45.pdf

I blame the economic downturn.

 

[Dog Tyred]

I blame solar flares!

Interesting stats though.

DT

 

[** Pending Removal **]

It's the poor coffee served.

 

[ips]

The lower orders in OT can shoot 28gm loads, and have been allowed to for probably three years now. Is there a correlation with that and the cut-off points for changes from D up to C and C up to B?

hang on a minute i am confused now on the basis that ot is now shot by the lower ranks with 28 same as abt then the comparison is absolute and therefore the fact that the cut off is so close surely only gives more credence to the fact that the disciplines are very close in difficulty.

begger, i said i was done. i blame Phil. just saying.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Well in clear 'non joined up thinking' the powers that be (see minutes online) actually discussed the idea of letting all classes of shooters shoot 28grms at OT ... :laugh:

Why....? I have no idea.... Laugh Out Loud.

 

[ips]

I don't care anymore i am just going to shoot the first thing that comes out with whatever load i pop in the chamber.

 

[Paul120]

Well in clear 'non joined up thinking' the powers that be (see minutes online) actually discussed the idea of letting all classes of shooters shoot 28grms at OT ... :laugh:

Why....? I have no idea.... Laugh Out Loud.

Interesting... They want to reduce loads across the board to 24g , but on the other hand they want 28 for OT... Is it me???

 

[PhilR]

hang on a minute i am confused now on the basis that ot is now shot by the lower ranks with 28 same as abt then the comparison is absolute and therefore the fact that the cut off is so close surely only gives more credence to the fact that the disciplines are very close in difficulty.

begger, i said i was done. i blame Phil. just saying.

You've just changed the parameters Ian. I said they can shoot 28gm, that doesn't mean to say all or any C/D shooters are using the heavier load.

 

[ips]

True-

all very confusing but then again stats are not always relevant i suppose long periods of bad weather etc can effect performance and consequently the cut offs

 

[PhilR]

Ian, IMO you're starting to get to the real reason why scores are depressed and that's due to the weather conditions here in the UK.

Certainly last year, and the year before the weather conditions were pretty poor at both ABT and UT selection shoots. How many times has the weather been good during the week only to take a turn for the worse come the weekend?

Critical is the light conditions and on a bright windy day scores will generally be higher than on a dull windy day.

The old adage if you can't see it, you can't shoot it holds true.

The handful of top shooters will always be at the top whatever the weather does although scores may be depressed, because they have the skill sets to adapt. Lesser mortals don't and tend to struggle in adverse conditions.

The differential between top and average shooters scores in good conditions is less than it is when conditions are poor.

 

[ips]

Phil

that makes perfect sense i think you are correct as you say top shooters seem to be able to cope better which is of course why they are top.

Slight drift but relevant.

When i was younger i never ever had an issue seeing any target in any conditions and that was in the days you didn't need glasses, i used to laugh to myself at older shooters discussing the merits of lens colour and the "i just cant see the target" conversations. Only in the last 5 years have i had the same problem and now understand that old eyes even with meat perfect vision are not very good unless its in perfect light. You will of course remember bisley abt last year, we were shocked at how well and how early we saw the target it took us 5 practice rounds to adjust to it.

Perhaps ed Lyons can answer why old eyes struggle even though vision is perfect ?

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Exactly..... Weather is the killer to scores.....so in the poor months....nip away.

Ian....you have to join us all (who use it) for warm weather training abroad in places like Jarapalo (Malaga), we were there in January and it was lovely. The Scots were there twice in Jan and I believe the Welsh also, although I did not see them.

The English shooters can't go unless they pay for themselves....because the Cpsa will not help them (even though they spend £100K on England teams....they will not help our ISSF team members)...they send them to SC to freeze instead (even in a Commonwealth year........Doh...!)...because they no longer manage their own Sport England money. (After giving it away to BS to manage).

Cheaper than driving to SC....fly easy jet.

Club 5-10 mins from hotel

Costs cheap.

Weather perfect.

Club facilities perfect

6 layouts

Training time very effective.

Great for team building as well.

 

[RobertBeard]

I would expect it to something along the lines of the old roads are now full of potholes and obstructions and it takes longer for the messages to get from the eyes to the brain and to your finger!

 

[ips]

Robert

nice analogy

Nic

sounds great sign me up

 

[jwpzx9r]

Ian

There is more to shooting than just the speed and direction of the target! What about the prevailing weather conditions and the quality of the target presentation? I cannot see how a format that has changed by making two of the targets straight makes anything harder there must be some logic to the story surely!

edit

what I mean by this is that we are hearing of poor weather during summers and maybe that is just enough to affect scores through bad light or such like? I know that being able to see the target against a clear blue sky makes a difference to my score compared to days when it is over cast and grey.

As I said much earlier the weather conditions will make a difference to scores!!

 

[ips]

Uk light or rather lack of it is indeed a major factor in poor scores at fast trap.

Targets set too fast for uk weather ?

Should be 70m max in all disciplines ?

 

[Jay]

Train hard fight easy !

 

[Paul120]

Train hard fight easy !

Sounds like a Millwall fan trying to get home after an away match.

 

[Jay]

No it's just a term from my Army days.

In the context of the difficult shooting conditions we often have in our country during the winter months (as described in the posts above) with poor light etc, i'm just saying it's probably best to accept that it is what it is and to keep shooting in winter then when summer comes the scores will improve. If you can't go to a warmer country to shoot of course ! 

 

[Les53]

Weather in this country is a major factor without a doubt, even our summer weather leaves a lot to be desired at times! When it comes to old gits like me, our eyes do not seem to focus or re focus as quickly as they used to, this can be compounded by low and or variable light conditions. Yes it would be nice to just shoot in places with a good climate, however most of us cannot do that, so we must just get on with it as best we can!