Another price increase

[Steve1970]

Just collected my 24g fblacks   now £223/1k.  Previous price was £201/1k  so up by 10.?%

 

[Charliedog]

So to add to that, if a company’s turnover is over £15m with a shareholders fund of £9m they are certainly not struggling. These figures are up year on year as well. 
put the price of cartridges up over 30% and hey presto profit increases. Makes you wonder how much raw material/logistics costs actually impacted their top line. Looking at the figures I’d say it hasn’t. Obviously no accounts submitted yet for 2021, should make for an interesting read  my guess is it will be up on last year by some margin  

it’s actually quite disgraceful really. I   don’t begrudge anyone a living or a margin but jumping on the Covid bandwagon for profit (don’t start me off on the shower in power) doesn’t sit well with me,  especially when it’s pricing people out of this fantastic sport! 
 

Nothing to do with fuel and energy price increases then?

 

[TK421]

Nothing to do with fuel and energy price increases then?

Marginal at most. All these increases started long before the increase in fuel/energy & HGV VIP drivers. As mentioned there’s plenty of meat on the bone to soak all these costs up as shown in the company accounts. 

 

[ColinD]

So if Fiocchi raise it by only 10% which in the current climate is reasonable (ish) what excuse are the GB makers using by increases close to 30% and still rising,perhaps we can get away with it if we all raise them together lads.

Another Fiocchi convert here, and to be honest I never gave them a thought before the hikes

 

[Charliedog]

Marginal at most. All these increases started long before the increase in fuel/energy & HGV VIP drivers. As mentioned there’s plenty of meat on the bone to soak all these costs up as shown in the company accounts. 

really, tried filling your car up in the last 6 months?

 

[TK421]

really, tried filling your car up in the last 6 months?

Cartridge Price increase stated March this year before increases as previously mentioned. Increase was stated as being related to raw material costs, parts shortage due to brexit and the very latest shortage of drivers. 

but if you want to attribute the cost increase due to fuel prices alone I’m looking forward to seeing them drop when fuel prices come down. 
 

 

[Charliedog]

Cartridge Price increase stated March this year before increases as previously mentioned. Increase was stated as being related to raw material costs, parts shortage due to brexit and the very latest shortage of drivers. 

but if you want to attribute the cost increase due to fuel prices alone I’m looking forward to seeing them drop when fuel prices come down. 
 

Prices of pretty much everything including cartridges have been going up my whole lifetime and to be honest not likely to change, we have an individual choice though, pay up or cut back, personally not entirely convinced theres a huge profit in cartridges, certainly not a huge margin for retailers which is usually a fair indicator of potential that youre having your pants pulled down

 

[TK421]

Prices of pretty much everything including cartridges have been going up my whole lifetime and to be honest not likely to change, we have an individual choice though, pay up or cut back, personally not entirely convinced theres a huge profit in cartridges, certainly not a huge margin for retailers which is usually a fair indicator of potential that youre having your pants pulled down

Hulls 2020 accounts £15m turnover, £8m shareholder funds  maybe my definition of margin/profit is different? I’d say it looks like a booming business to be in. Don’t be fooled by the larger retailers saying they have tight margins on cartridges. Granted it’s not the same as electronics but there’s still good margin. 
fact of the matter I can’t ever remember cartridges increasing 30% in any given year, especially considering lead hasn’t increased in considerable value for the last 10 years or so. 
saying  shoot less is the reason why so many are so p155ed off 
 

 

[El Spavo]

In a really simple example, let’s say a business is headed towards making £1m profit for the year. The company then pays £900k salary bonuses (usually to the folk who own the company). The £900k is hidden in “Operating costs”. So the profit to the business is now only £100k when the accounts go in. 

Not in business (obviously!! ), but that just sounds bent to my inexperienced ears?!

And what's a bonus when it's at home??!

Thinking about it though,... I don't think I've ever had one! Got a pack of stamps from Royal Mail at xmas when I was a teenage postie, over 25 years ago, does that count?

 

[Charliedog]

Hulls 2020 accounts £15m turnover, £8m shareholder funds  maybe my definition of margin/profit is different? I’d say it looks like a booming business to be in. Don’t be fooled by the larger retailers saying they have tight margins on cartridges. Granted it’s not the same as electronics but there’s still good margin. 
fact of the matter I can’t ever remember cartridges increasing 30% in any given year, especially considering lead hasn’t increased in considerable value for the last 10 years or so. 
saying  shoot less is the reason why so many are so p155ed off 
 

I am not entirely familiar with the term shareholders fund (poss value of company if liquidated) but looking at the Hull accounts you published they make an annual profit of £600k on a £15m turnover (3%), probably in line with most businesses?

 

[Jonny English]

I am not entirely familiar with the term shareholders fund (poss value of company if liquidated) but looking at the Hull accounts you published they make an annual profit of £600k on a £15m turnover (3%), probably in line with most businesses?

Yes quite correct, 3% is in line with a lot of business of that size,probably if not even a little on the low side. Most capital investors would want a better return than 3 or 4% for sure.

 

[TK421]

Think of the shareholders fund as the share capital plus all the retained profits of the company. Gross profit was £4m, with £3M cash in hand for 2020, which is the strongest year they’ve ever had.Companies can produce accounts with quite a lot of flamboyancy. This isn’t an a accounting 101by any means. 
If you guys want to think Hull are only breaking even then that’s fine and the accountants have done part of their job well. You do know the accounts are public right?
Im Not getting into it on here or in this thread. Looking at what’s been mentioned above you’re pointing the finger of blame for the price increase at other external issues and reading further into it that Hull are possibly  on the decline and that’s absolutely fine. 

Anyway this is only my opinion of course from what I see when I read the books, YMMV. My opinion is only fulled by my passion for the sport and frustration at rising costs.
 
 

 

[MartynB]

The object of the shareholders is to make a profit . Fairness to the consumer doesn’t come into it . As far as  cartridge companies going bust it won’t happen any time soon  .  If they can’t survive on volume as a commodity supplier , they’ll move their business model to being specialty suppliers . Lower volumes niche products higher prices . I only shoot clays socially   now , but all the guys I see shooting are of a certain age and I’d say gave high disposable incomes .  When you look at the game shooting guys , a hundred quid a thousand is just the keepers tip for a good day , so price won’t kill their pig .  If I were cynical I’d say the cartridge companies are making hay whilst the sun shines . If lead is banned , single use plastic banned , they may well face huge capital investments on re-tooling their plants . Don’t think  “ green “ won’t happen to clay shoots it will and we are going to pay for everything involved from the ammunition to the environmental clean up . 

 

[TRINITY]

Just collected my 24g fblacks   now £223/1k.  Previous price was £201/1k  so up by 10.?%

That's the problem with all this. Fiocchi and their distributors are not daft, neither are they charities. They will be fully aware what's happening in the UK market place. They will see the huge price differential between their product and the competition and will take advantage. They will squeeze what profit they can and just keep their products that little bit lower to also continue to mop up new customers.

It's when you see the wider picture and some European prices ,you appreciate how much UK shooters are being exploited.

 

[TRINITY]

Just to add to my post above. I have just checked my local decathlon store in Spain

I can buy a single 25 box of 24gm plastic wad 7.5  at £4.27 

Or a 250 slab of 28gm 7.5 plastic wad at £42.70

That's a basic store and small amounts!!! I bet searching round and buying say 2000/3000 they are even far cheaper.

How much more evidence do you need to see that we are being cynically exploited.

 

[ColinD]

As I've said before were known as Treasure Island here by retailers

 

[FESkent]

We sell Fiocchi cartridges and I can assure you they have not yet put up their prices,

Received only this week:

Hello John,

[SIZE=11pt]Just in case you don’t know we are due a price increase in the new year, we don’t know by how much or exactly when yet.[/SIZE]

And if you look at the Gamebore accounts you will see their turnover was down 19%. Express have decided not to publish their turnover or profit in their accounts, so they must be very bad at a guess. They increased prices on the 27th November.

One reason for the rising prices is that transport costs for both the complete cartridge    e.g Fiocchi or the components need to assemble the cartridges in the U.K. have increased significantly due to Brexit and Covid.

 

[Steve1970]

We sell Fiocchi cartridges and I can assure you they have not yet put up their prices,

Received only this week:

Hello John,

[SIZE=11pt]Just in case you don’t know we are due a price increase in the new year, we don’t know by how much or exactly when yet.[/SIZE]

Profiteering by dealers?  Just out of interest what do you currently charge on 24g fblack  24g ?    

 

[FESkent]

Profiteering by dealers?  Just out of interest what do you currently charge on 24g fblack  24g ?    

£220.00 plastic wads.  When did you last buy them at £201.00 ?

Their last price list was March 2021

 

[Steve1970]

£220.00 plastic wads.  When did you last buy them at £201.00 ?

Their last price list was March 2021

This summer ,was still advertised at this price up to about 2 weeks ago .maybe older stock  still almost £40 cheaper than hull pro 1  as an equivalent cartridge.