Bagging time

[HDAV]

How about binned cards put you up a class? No sand bagging then! perhaps a score of 101? Then you can't be high gun.

Only way I'll make A class+

 

[jim french]

Sorry folks just read this , well most of it anyway

Firstly recording scores as you pay your entry fee Allison enters you onto the shoot 08 programme then at the end of the day if a card is not handed back it appears as a zero at the Cpsa . This works well but for some grounds still write the entries into a book first then if a card don't come in it is rubbed off and the shooter becomes a ghost and as such never shot that comp .

The Cpsa have asked us several times to take the scores off the master card , my answer was we haven't got time to do this so once a month I will send them all through so they can do it , so hence they send letters out now for zero scores

Secondly , the term sand bagging , over the last 10 years I have probably run as many reg shoots as any one going and can tell you I have seen it all , shooting the sky , moon , grass and anything else rather than the clay but it's the shooters decision whether they want to waste their shells and money so it does happen and until we have a fool proof method of working classes it will always happen , but please be rest assured it doesn't only happen to stay down a class it also happens to protect AAA status or protect a high average !!

It happens to protect AAA status i think me needs to get out more, that explains all those zeros against top names then. :rabbi:

 

[dashman1]

Exactly atb

 

[ips]

I have only known of scores not being recorded twice and both at dtl shoots and both times to protect against dropping a class not to ensure a drop. Seems to me a binned score for either reason is an offence and shooters doing so should be reprimanded.

yet another reason for no classes, no class to drop and none to move too = shoot as good as you can on the day. Three classes international national and club. Win a major or shoot for country your international win county or shoot for county or regional team your national none of the above but enjoy competition your club. Winner of each wins best score is high gun. Job done nothing difficult no way or reason to manage scores. Not difficult makes sense to me. Any questions. ?

 

[Dog Tyred]

Hang on, you have just introduced classes again !! Instead of calling them International, National and Club, why not just call them A, B and C class to save on ink?

And besides, at a typical trap shoot Inters will have about 3 entries, Nats about 10 entries and Club will fill the rest.

Incoming!!

DT

 

[ips]

Ah but the criteria to be in the class is different as it's not score related it's achievement related and once your in you don't move out just because of one bad score therfore no reason to manipulate averages just shoot the thing.

 

[ips]

With all the experience and knowledge on this forum surely we can come up with a better system than we have. Maybe not mine maybe there is another solution but imo the current system is flawed and most seem to agree so how do we do it what's the answer for a true representation of a shooters ability and what system can be implemented that is not open to target management ?

Discus.

 

[Will Hewland]

With all the experience and knowledge on this forum surely we can come up with a better system than we have. Maybe not mine maybe there is another solution but imo the current system is flawed and most seem to agree so how do we do it what's the answer for a true representation of a shooters ability and what system can be implemented that is not open to target management ?

Discus.

I have written it on here about 5 times.. 

 

[ips]

As have I will with the above. But we never seem to come to a definitive conclusion.

 

[Dog Tyred]

5% cut off for non-qualifying scores. Quarterly re-classifications. Non submitted scores at registered comps results in a penalty score equal to the shooters average. This last point should be easy enough to apply as the shoot organizer must register all the entrants. Minimum 300 targets in a qualifying period.

Just saying

DT

 

[Rosso]

I think the CPSA run a 10% cut off. Scores below 10% of your runing average are not counted.

Not sure but its something like this.

Will :- may be you have to write it another 5 times on here for Ian's benefit.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Lots and lots of wasted typing as those sitting on the thrones at HQ will not do anything at all. 

We have directors and CEO on here and we are already at 8 pages and no input from any of them.

The only helpful ones in the past have been the staff.

15 pages

then quiet

then another few more threads every few months

all about 10 pages

and in 20 more years it will still be the same.

Nice try though boys. But you see to change anything you have to speak to and get people there......to listen.....and then.....to agree with you.......and after all that......nothing will change.

 

[ips]

5% cut off for non-qualifying scores. Quarterly re-classifications. Non submitted scores at registered comps results in a penalty score equal to the shooters average. This last point should be easy enough to apply as the shoot organizer must register all the entrants. Minimum 300 targets in a qualifying period.

Just saying

DT

I like it Greg especially the 5% in line with dtl the 10% is too much. Still think my idea should be incorporated in some way.

 

[Chris Bubb]

Whatever system is used somebody is going to moan. What about doing  away with classes, not calling it birds only or competition, just call it an entry. Then pay further down the scale. Oh hang on that's an open, sounds fare too me though.

 

[ips]

+1 Chris

my sentiments exactly however unlike you and I many don't seem to like the idea of level playing field hence my attempt at a happy medium for the masses.

 

[timps]

For sporting nothing is ever going to work as grounds set different target difficulties. Also shoots sometimes shoot harder or softer than the course setter envisaged.

A couple of classifications ago when I could actually shoot if you took the averages from just two grounds I frequented then I was AA class, a different two and I was B class. The rest I was A.

Regardless of the method implemented for working out the classifications the disparity between the shoots is still going to exist.

If I just frequent the harder grounds due to location or liking a challenge I am going to be a top B class shooter,seen as a definite sandbagger. If I just frequent the easier ones I will be a crap AA with an inflated ego. As it was I was A which was kind of a true reflection, but not everyone is prepared to put the mileage in so you will get skewed averages one way or another just shooting the same local grounds.

Unless you make people attend a single quarterly classification shoot or make them shoot a minimum amount of different grounds then the classifications for sporting are arbitrary at best regardless of the way you work them out.

Throwing away a card at a hard shoot or never attending a hard shoot in the first place both have the same outcome.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

What about points from high gun score at each shoot....might take some working out but....

 

[Will Hewland]

For sporting nothing is ever going to work as grounds set different target difficulties. Also shoots sometimes shoot harder or softer than the course setter envisaged.

Regardless of the method implemented for working out the classifications the disparity between the shoots is still going to exist.

If I just frequent the harder grounds due to location or liking a challenge I am going to be a top B class shooter,seen as a definite sandbagger. If I just frequent the easier ones I will be a crap AA with an inflated ego..

My system nails this issue..

 

[Chris Bubb]

My system nails this issue..

So does mine. :nomention:

 

[ips]

Yes Chris all angles covered with ours.