DoubleBarrelledDon
Well-known member
if I was a cynical type I might suggest that multichokes had been invented by a very savvy marketing department ..............
Chokes for Sporting.
- Thread starter Salopian
- Start date
Help Support Clay, Trap, Skeet Shooting Forum:
RobertBeard
Moderator
I don't think the report denies that tighter chokes don't work but they are suggesting that beyond half choke their ability to further constrict the shot cloud is more limited than has been thought subject to barrels, chokes, cartridges etc. I suspect that their testing has not been in sufficient quantity to draw anything other than this broad conclusion which should encourage shooters to do more testing to find out their most effective combination.
Don,
Yes by the same marketing department who allowed their factory to be knocked down and not replaced, who allowed a fantastic product to be no longer available, to allow a very poor replacement gun to be cloned from parts made in Portugal, Brazil, Italy, Japan and assembled in Belgium, to have fantastic cartridges made in Italy discontinued but still available in the U.S.
But then maybe I'm just being cynical?
:wink:
Yes by the same marketing department who allowed their factory to be knocked down and not replaced, who allowed a fantastic product to be no longer available, to allow a very poor replacement gun to be cloned from parts made in Portugal, Brazil, Italy, Japan and assembled in Belgium, to have fantastic cartridges made in Italy discontinued but still available in the U.S.
But then maybe I'm just being cynical?
:wink:
Don,
Yes by the same marketing department who allowed their factory to be knocked down and not replaced, who allowed a fantastic product to be no longer available, to allow a very poor replacement gun to be cloned from parts made in Portugal, Brazil, Italy, Japan and assembled in Belgium, to have fantastic cartridges made in Italy discontinued but still available in the U.S.
But then maybe I'm just being cynical?
OOOOOhhhhh ! I really can't think what company you mean! .
I have heard all this a thousand times with us trap shooters too. I once used to shoot DTL, I tried a multi choke trap gun with 1/4 and 1/2 and the same gun with 3/4 and full. I did this over a period of about three months using the same shells, my scores did not alter at all on average. It really made no difference which choking I used, I now shoot O/T and use 3/4 and full, but I know some guys who use full/full and others that use 1/2 and 3/4 or 1/2 and full or 3/4 and full. I'm sure that much of this choke thing is in the head rather than in the barrels! .!! :.: How fast you pick up and shoot the target will have an effect too, a fact which is often overlooked. :wink:
You need enough to make good breaks, 1/2 is enough, just, which is probably why so many seem able to live with such a wide range as 1/2 through to Full. I would hazard a guess that the reason you seemed able to live with DTL targets and 1/4 was a combination of you shooting quick, the targets being essentially easy compared to say OT or dare I say it Sportin' and the reality that many so called 1/4 chokes don't throw as such.
The ultimate proof comes from knowing that the best will not trust 1/4 or thereabouts to break everything.
The ultimate proof comes from knowing that the best will not trust 1/4 or thereabouts to break everything.
EdSolomons
Well-known member
Was it done repeatabley Ian?ie 10ex10?
5 thou in itself is not an indication of pattern density though I agree it is the best we have to go on since measuring individual chokes performance on paper is both pointless and extreme. I would guess you broke them well through a combination of things, being accurate is a damn good start, then the possibility that the shell and 5 thou combo wasn't actually throwing quite as open as it ought to (not impossible) the target orientation is just about the most important factor in my view, if it was showing plenty of face then individual pellet strikes will give breaks.
Another possible factor is the mind helping you all along - what I mean is regardless of supposedly not knowing which choke was in which barrel, the more experienced would suss this within a few shots anyway and subconsciously induce more misses with the tight barrel so giving the impression the open was working particularly well. Group psyche may have subtly demanded that. I don't know to be fair but I do know gaps in the pattern won't help breaks and open has gaps.
MINUS 5 thou! Not plus. Shot everything with everything and misses were down to pilot error. Hammy, we have shot a few guns between us you know, I expect the accumulated experience was about 100 years! Missing deliberately? What are you trying to say?
Subconsciously inducing more misses, not missing deliberately. This is, or at least must be why I for instance can't shoot Full choke but will happily shoot 3/4 all day, the idea has got into my brain that Full brings misses so I fulfil the prophecy. If you're convinced minus 5 thou is just as effective as tighter then you'll fulfil that prophecy.
An afternoons jolly between friends is what I live for Ian but it's not scientific proof.
An afternoons jolly between friends is what I live for Ian but it's not scientific proof.
DoubleBarrelledDon, on 13 September 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:just to add a little more confusion.....4 cartridges from 2 manufacturers were on test including a 24gr which consistently killed a 50 yard plus crosser on the top of the wylye bank through the -5 thou barrel
If the target was showing a decent amount of face and the underside as well I would think it perfectly possible to consistantly break it with 24gram of 7s or 7 1/2s with a spreader choke, after all your chucking 300 pellets at it and you should only need 2 or 3.
That being said to actually do it does bring a pleasing smile to the face followed by looks of incredability.
Harley
Well-known member
Being new to this sport, I hope you can appreciate I have enough to worry about with hold, leed, stance etc etc, so regarding choke changing & what barrel, I decided to buy two optima extended Muller U2's from Nick @ Just choking, and found they gave me confidence, As i was breaking em!
i know its where im pointing that matters, but I don't wanna be wondering what barrel for this shot etc.
I will just shoot and learn them, nothing changes unless I do skeet.
One less thing to worry about, and for me personally that's great.
When I start doing long range shoots once I'm a little more confident, I will look into U3's etc but for now the U2's break all the target ranges at my local clubs.
right or wrong, that's my take on it.
i know its where im pointing that matters, but I don't wanna be wondering what barrel for this shot etc.
I will just shoot and learn them, nothing changes unless I do skeet.
One less thing to worry about, and for me personally that's great.
When I start doing long range shoots once I'm a little more confident, I will look into U3's etc but for now the U2's break all the target ranges at my local clubs.
right or wrong, that's my take on it.
Dean B
Well-known member
You are right Harley , when I started shooting I put 1/2 & 1/2 in and for got about it , and when ever I missed it was because I MISSED not because I did not have the right choke in or I was using the wrong size shot or I had 30in instead of 32in or my barrels were to light or to heavy or my gun was to long or to short it was
simply because I missed because i did not put the shot in the right place , the most in portend thing when you start shooting is to have some lessons form the start
simply because I missed because i did not put the shot in the right place , the most in portend thing when you start shooting is to have some lessons form the start
I'm not sure that chokes and science can be put together. Weather conditions, variation between cartridges, variation between gun choking, wind direction etc. etc. etc. It's all a bit of a black art to be honest and a lot of gun and choke manufacturers have made a fortune on the back of it. As for counting pellet strikes on a pattern plate - for Gods sake, get a life. Collecting bus tickets and licking shop windows is higher on the list of interests.An afternoons jolly between friends is what I live for Ian but it's not scientific proof.
Chard
Well-known member
jake.keeling
Well-known member
It is true that there is no noticeable difference in pattern size between one choke increment and the next up or down, but different cartridges through the same choke! Seriously! it's the Mutt behind the Butt!!
The thread that I posted sometime ago about choke that gave the link to Gil Ash's choke video clearly shows the effective, patterns at various distances but the important thing that is missed is the degradation of that chosen choke pattern at greater ranges, it really does become very ineffective alarmingly quickly.
Which may possibly give good reasons to go up a choke size on your initial assessment, for example if you think 1/4 choke is enough, step up to light modified or 3/8 choke.
Once again there can be a lot of conjecture about chokes and I feel it is true to say that providing your confidence and ability is sound, you will not go far wrong using 1/2 choke for nearly everything.
Which may possibly give good reasons to go up a choke size on your initial assessment, for example if you think 1/4 choke is enough, step up to light modified or 3/8 choke.
Once again there can be a lot of conjecture about chokes and I feel it is true to say that providing your confidence and ability is sound, you will not go far wrong using 1/2 choke for nearly everything.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
Did the question make sense? If you mean do different cartridges throw different pattern sizes (through the same choke); then hell yeah.
jake.keeling
Well-known member
Apart from maybe a few extra fliers I haven't found a poor enough cartridge that would open up the pattern on a pattern plate, compared to a top quality hard shot. But maybe I haven't tried hard enough and obviously I can't see the length of shot string, which could be an issue.
Similar threads
