CPSA cut offs / classifications for issue 47 (applies from June 1st)

[Will Hewland]

The class system is fine as long as you have shot enough events at enough grounds. Said it before.. Minimum 600 targets at minimum 3 grounds to get classified or change class. (Could make that 1000 targets or whatever..)

 

[Les53]

B class ABT for instance is approx. 84% so a shooter being capable and having shot 2x 90s and 2x 78s is B class same as someone who has shot 2x85 and 2x83 are these two shooters comparable ? one has proven he or she can shoot A class scores and has possibly shot the 2x78s in bad weather etc, the other is a good steady shooter but not capable of A class scores. Should shooter one be in B class same as shooter two ????

 That's a valid point Ian, but I doubt that I would be adopted mate!

 

[ips]

That's not a bad idea clever, it would certainly be an improvement and make the stats more believable BUT do we really need 4 classes per discipline ?

 

[Will Hewland]

There are 4/5 in sporting (AAA only used at big events). Maybe I'm just used to it, but I think you need them all in sporting, because the difference in scores between a real beginner and a top shot is huge (much more than trap I assume due to the massive learning curve).

 

[Darkside]

B class ABT for instance is approx. 84% so a shooter being capable and having shot 2x 90s and 2x 78s is B class same as someone who has shot 2x85 and 2x83 are these two shooters comparable ? one has proven he or she can shoot A class scores and has possibly shot the 2x78s in bad weather etc, the other is a good steady shooter but not capable of A class scores. Should shooter one be in B class same as shooter two ????

ips, shooter one would be in A class!!!

2 x 90 + 2 x 78 = 336

336/4 = 84 (raw average) 84 - 5% = 79.8 ...so the 2 x 78 would be dropped and shooter A would have a 90% average

So, shooter one is in A class and shooter two is in B class ;0

 

[maddmatt]

What if each shoot had its average calculated, so all the scores on that day would give you an average for that day, so in a multi-day event, if one day was horrendous weather wise if would be reflected in the days average for the course. This could be used to calculate shooters averages. So if a shoot was ridiculously easy and had a very high average it would stop shooters averages being skewed and potentially putting them in to a class they shouldn't be in and if a shoot was ridiculously hard the same would apply. Doubt it would be very tricky to do, but just an idea...

 

[Will Hewland]

What if each shoot had its average calculated, so all the scores on that day would give you an average for that day, so in a multi-day event, if one day was horrendous weather wise if would be reflected in the days average for the course. This could be used to calculate shooters averages. So if a shoot was ridiculously easy and had a very high average it would stop shooters averages being skewed and potentially putting them in to a class they shouldn't be in and if a shoot was ridiculously hard the same would apply. Doubt it would be very tricky to do, but just an idea...

I have been saying for years that it should be even simpler to just take the percentage from overall finishing position. HG is 100% the person who is last is 0%, the person in the middle is 50%. Works at an easy shoot / big shoot/ small shoot / tough shoot. Job done.

 

[ips]

James

its 10% for abt 5% is only for dtl so i don't think the 78 would be dropped. Could be wrong though.

Matt

yes i have said many times before that they averages per shoot should be worked out using count back like selection shoots are based. But some kind of average on the day that you refer to is probably even better idea.

 

[maddmatt]

Calculating the average on each day is the only true way to know what the event average is, from that you can quickly class shooters on the day, instantly stops class management and sand bagging, stops shooters staying in lower classes because they shoot harder grounds and levels all grounds across the country (by average). It is only a thought for discussion...

 

[ips]

I think your spot on Matt. With todays technology it cant be difficult surely.

 

[BoB1]

What if you had a situation whereby, for instance, in a dtl comp, you have a veteran shooter who in the current system would be A or AA, on the day shot poorly (by his standard). Ended up with 95/280 (for example). You then had a new shooter, less than a years experience, shot a great (for him) 95/281.

The "on-the-day" average then placed the Vet AA chap as C-class winner, and placed the new C chap as 8th in B.

Winning "your class" then becomes kind of pot luck (unless you are HG). So in a 24 man comp, for example, 1st, 7th, 13th & 19th will collect money if there are AA, A, B & C classes (or would the averages be worked out differently in yer proposed system?).

What are the thoughts on that? Would that be fairer than the current 6-monthly average system?

 

[Jim Wheeler]

I am a bit surprised about the way 'percentages' are based on the number of targets. As far as I know,, FSP is % of top score?( but not ESP?),,  seems more logical to me.

 

[Jim Wheeler]

see if this is attached.

 this is a long read! it has some sections which MAY interest some of you. although it's relating to South African shooting, it has some parts 'revised' for local use there. but all based on the English shooting scene.  there are in fact all subjects covered,,, including what is considered a 'dress code' for the Rules thread. :nyam:

but don't worry,, all the 'discussion ' ( read arguing!) on this forum is a mirror of all the 'discussion" (read arguing!) about everything connected to shooting there or here !  lots of armchair chat goes' on all round the world. every-one has an opinion,,, just some are more 'opinionated' than others?

competition-regulations.pdf

 

[Will Hewland]

I am a bit surprised about the way 'percentages' are based on the number of targets. As far as I know,, FSP is % of top score?( but not ESP?),,  seems more logical to me.

I think you are confused.. See the CPSA website for proper explanation..

 

[ips]

Rob

i think matts proposal is that the averages are floating and worked out on the day so depending on overall scores your vet chap could theoretically still be in A on the day despite his lower for him score as long as overall scores were down due to cack UK weather. The current system means that on a cack day many scores are low even though the shooters shot very well for the conditions however there averages are cocked up through no fault of there own. I have shot in terrible conditions and posted very low scores but won, on the occasions i consider i shot very well indeed and yet average plummeted which imo is nonsense. It is possible to shoot a very good hard fought 80 on a bad day and have shot it much better than a 90 you just scraped in on a good day.

 

[Dog Tyred]

Jamesits 10% for abt 5% is only for dtl so i don't think the 78 would be dropped. Could be wrong though.Mattyes i have said many times before that they averages per shoot should be worked out using count back like selection shoots are based. But some kind of average on the day that you refer to is probably even better idea.

Maybe the DTL format (5%) is the way to go?That way more lower scores get dropped when calculating the average.

Quite like the idea of taking the high gun score on the day and working from there as this would certainly take bad weather, winter shooters into account......provided Ed Ling isn't shooting of course!!

DT

 

[Bebo]

I was contemplating entering my first registered shoot next month but after reading this lot I don't think I'll bother.  I shall just stick to looking at the little spreadsheet I keep of my scores to see if I'm improving or not.

 

[Will Hewland]

I really think that the HG score is such a bad idea. It is one person, possibly having a great day. Look at Mark Winser at the EO. totally out on his own. That's why I favour my percentage idea of position in total list, as it compares each shooter to the entire entry.

 

[Will Hewland]

I was contemplating entering my first registered shoot next month but after reading this lot I don't think I'll bother.  I shall just stick to looking at the little spreadsheet I keep of my scores to see if I'm improving or not.

Ignore all this cobblers. Registered shoots may be what totally drives you. Try it out. People only discuss negative issues on here as good news makes boring reading. It's normal..

 

[ips]

I agree with clever his and matts idea is probably better than my high gun count back.

To clarify

neither me or Matt are saying you get a new class on every shoot only that the cut off points are variable.