Do they really make a difference?

[ChrisPackham]

I'm nearly out of white gold fibre and I really don't fancy 250 per thou as a replacement.  I shot 120 sporting this afternoon using up various cartridges in back of cupboard, 28g compx7.5, 24g evo 8, 28g white gold 8, 28g velocity 7.5 and have drawn the conclusion that cartridges make little difference to me, I can miss with expensive and hit with cheap.

Other than recoil, which I suffer from and disliked compx most, and unburnt powder, do cartridges make any difference to results?  If so at what point?

 

[jonz]

Not for me, I've shot cartridges that are £225 per thousand and those that are £180 and can't tell the difference. It's a mind thing in my book, if you have confidence in the shells and put the shot in the right place the cost is immaterial. Guess others will have a different opinion 

 

[jwpzx9r]

This has been raised on many occasions now and my view remains unchanged... I would put my house on no statistically significant change of results for more than 95% of shooters if they did not know what they were shooting. The main differences in performance are to things which may or may not effect certain shooters eg recoil, un-burnt powder, colour of case... height of brass plating of brass you name it but the actual breaking of targets part ... would be the same. Lets face it in a sport where from one day to the next the number of targets broken by many shooters can vary by up to 10% how the hell do you measure the performance of the cartridge !! I know the answer to that question and it would be a very long and costly exercise... one which the people who make the damned things know they would be well advised not to enter into... thus the reason you will never see a claim for the effectiveness of their product... they just tell you who has won what with them... which means the square root of zilch. 

 

[Iggy]

Maybe for those at the top of the sport, but for us mortals probably not. 

I’d really like someone to do a medical style placebo type trial, I have a feeling that for the majority of us (myself included) that just ‘thinking’ we are shooting a higher ‘grade’ cartridge would probably yield better perceived results and conversely shooting a poorer ‘grade’ one the opposite. 

For me it’s come down to what’s relatively locally available , sensibly priced (sub £200/1000) and not painful to shoot. If it keeps the tubes reasonably clean all the better. 

 

[danq]

have to agree with jwp . about 20 years ago a buddy and me started trying out every different cartridge our local shop had, and apart from recoil from the supersonics there was no difference in targets acquired. a few years later we even did plaswad compared to fibre I can tell the difference in recoil and noise but performance was the  same.

there are a lot of people who get a psychological hit from using same gun carts etc as a champion and may well shoot better for using them but I am sure generally there is no gain to be made from using expensive carts.  I don't use Winchester carts as these seemed the dirtiest we tried 

 

[Sian]

If we are talking fibre I am fussy, if plastic not really.  Luckily I don't shoot huge amounts of fibre so I will pay silly money to use one that doesn't give me loads of confetti.  That's all I care about with fibre.

 

[westley]

If we are talking fibre I am fussy, if plastic not really.  Luckily I don't shoot huge amounts of fibre so I will pay silly money to use one that doesn't give me loads of confetti.  That's all I care about with fibre.

AND there was me, under the illusion that CONFETTI was the ONLY thing that you Girls worried about NOT getting  !

 

[Deleted member 230]

Shot 3 90's  at esp with 28grm plas wad jockers in the last couple of months.   Weston wood , honesberie and gunsite. When I'm awake they do the business. Did another with fblacks at Longridge. Only difference was my pocket was £30 lighter. And just maybe the fblacks were softer. The fiocchi are very clean tho. Settled now on fblu . Not sure I like the thought of the jockers being reclaimed shot. But anyhow they do perform very well. Mrs has had some amazing kills with the 24grm jockers. The jockers near me have crept up  a bit . now to very close to fiocchi money. So to answer to the question , as long as you can be confident with them and not resort to blaming the cartridge for a miss , buy cheap. You will be fine. TT 1 are good too. 

Jasper.

P.s my friend uses superfast and loves em. Shame they are pushing £200 now too. ?

 

[Will Hewland]

As I've said before, the Rios really do the job for me. Of course I shoot badly more often than not, so scores aren't the way to judge it. Just for reference, I did get HG recently and there were some longer targets to test ballistics. I've never felt the cheaper cartridges were even slightly a disadvantage. 

Lately I have been craving a tad less recoil. I've bought some Gamebore EVOs; patterned them today, all good. They're softer and will try on clays soon. Literally thinking of paying another £3 per shoot for less recoil. I cannot consider why on earth you would pay £250 or so. Just marketing.. I know sponsored shooters who tell me they actually prefer some of the cheaper shells but are not allowed to shoot them!

 

[ChrisPackham]

Shot 3 90's  at esp with 28grm plas wad jockers in the last couple of months.   Weston wood , honesberie and gunsite. When I'm awake they do the business. Did another with fblacks at Longridge. Only difference was my pocket was £30 lighter. And just maybe the fblacks were softer. The fiocchi are very clean tho. Settled now on fblu . Not sure I like the thought of the jockers being reclaimed shot. But anyhow they do perform very well. Mrs has had some amazing kills with the 24grm jockers. The jockers near me have crept up  a bit . now to very close to fiocchi money. So to answer to the question , as long as you can be confident with them and not resort to blaming the cartridge for a miss , buy cheap. You will be fine. TT 1 are good too. 

Jasper.

P.s my friend uses superfast and loves em. Shame they are pushing £200 now too. ?

Thanks,  based on availability and cost I have narrowed it down to 24g TT1 or 24g Evo both in Fibre, TT1 are £17 less per thou but only in Italian 7.5 so a shot size bigger than Evo in 8... Test will tell.

As I've said before, the Rios really do the job for me. Of course I shoot badly more often than not, so scores aren't the way to judge it. Just for reference, I did get HG recently and there were some longer targets to test ballistics. I've never felt the cheaper cartridges were even slightly a disadvantage. 

Lately I have been craving a tad less recoil. I've bought some Gamebore EVOs; patterned them today, all good. They're softer and will try on clays soon. Literally thinking of paying another £3 per shoot for less recoil. I cannot consider why on earth you would pay £250 or so. Just marketing.. I know sponsored shooters who tell me they actually prefer some of the cheaper shells but are not allowed to shoot them!

I really like the 24g no8 Evo that you suggested when I first joined forum, I haven't tried fibre version yet though.  When I had my Beretta fit to me the gunsmith was amazed how even the pattern was, although that was with plastic wad.  Weirdly I didn't like the 28g as much.

 

[Finners]

I only ever shoot Fibre, having done a pretty lengthy test of the usual suspects, and being a bit of a tight wad (sic) I settled on Superfasts. Having said that, the Evo's where pretty high up the list as I recall, I think it came down to availability, and the Superfasts are a bit cleaner too. 

Totally agree that cost does not determine scores, for me Superfasts are the ideal compromise. 

 

[ChrisPackham]

I only ever shoot Fibre, having done a pretty lengthy test of the usual suspects, and being a bit of a tight wad (sic) I settled on Superfasts. Having said that, the Evo's where pretty high up the list as I recall, I think it came down to availability, and the Superfasts are a bit cleaner too. 

Totally agree that cost does not determine scores, for me Superfasts are the ideal compromise. 

I do get irritating streaking from Evo, bugger to shift, but have only tried plastic.

 

[Simbo]

I'm nearly out of white gold fibre and I really don't fancy 250 per thou as a replacement.  I shot 120 sporting this afternoon using up various cartridges in back of cupboard, 28g compx7.5, 24g evo 8, 28g white gold 8, 28g velocity 7.5 and have drawn the conclusion that cartridges make little difference to me, I can miss with expensive and hit with cheap.

Other than recoil, which I suffer from and disliked compx most, and unburnt powder, do cartridges make any difference to results?  If so at what point?

Shootclay Cup sponsored by Jocker. Entry fee includes carts...................You on the case Will? :clover:

 

[Will Hewland]

Over to you Andy.. I concluded I was likely to annoy more people than I entertained by organising anything.. ?

 

[Simbo]

Me and you in the shoot off then old friend! :lol:

 

[Deleted member 230]

Thanks,  based on availability and cost I have narrowed it down to 24g TT1 or 24g Evo both in Fibre, TT1 are £17 less per thou but only in Italian 7.5 so a shot size bigger than Evo in 8... Test will tell.

I really like the 24g no8 Evo that you suggested when I first joined forum, I haven't tried fibre version yet though.  When I had my Beretta fit to me the gunsmith was amazed how even the pattern was, although that was with plastic wad.  Weirdly I didn't like the 28g as much.

Shot lots of evo's a few years ago until they went silly on price too. Liked em . But seriously TT1 or jokers or velocity's  did the job as well. In fact put in a 93 at Westfield using evo's and velocity. Just had em all mixed up in my pocket loaded em and shot em .very difficult to tell any difference. Discected them after only to find they both had the same wad in. Both3% antimony so the only difference was powder. 

Jasper.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Not sure I like the thought of the jockers being reclaimed shot

Now I did not know that ! I had some apart a few months back and to be honest I could not see any difference between the shot in them and the shot in Clever T2 ? Many people down here have been using Jocker cartridges although one of the main criticisms of them down this way is that the plaswads are too flimsy and fall apart on firing... the results are still good though. 

 

[Deleted member 230]

I Didn't either . Until they did a report on them in clay shooting magazine.  Don't know if you can get it in France  , maybe you can get it online. Apparently they clean , grade , then graphite coat them .something like that .

They do perform very well , as you say. At My local supplier the price has crept up, I think due to their popularity. So other stuff looks better value. 

Jasper

Shot Looks ok in this 24grm

 

[ChrisPackham]

Picked up some tt1 24 g 7.5 today, will see how they go..