Gunsite 19/8

[Darkside]

I hope I'm just getting better.......C class with the last two shoots 81 and 82 to win C with only 1 B class in each with a higher score!?!? 79 at a FITASC yesterday, no idea how I placed in D class, i had to go early to help a friend with poults, it was won on 89 by the guy who was 1st in AA at the world sporting.

 

[teepee1234]

Takes us back in a nice circle to the thread on the classification system. I'm not experienced enough to comment on it, but as was said above, the good weather is certainly going to have an affect on scores. Let's see what the winter brings........

In a sudden philosophical rush, as per the Fuz, I'm thinking that these issues will never be resolved. All target setters are different, all grounds have different terrain, the weather is changeable, shooters have peaks and troughs depending on many variables, the classification system will never be perfect......and you can't please all of the people all of the time!

I will continue to go comp, continue to strive for perfection even if I don't achieve it, continue to take coaching lessons, continue to shoot as often as I can.....and most of all, I will continue to enjoy it!

 

[optima]

Optima what would you say a tough shoot should be won on bearing in mind the lower class shooters and their abilities.

When you stand about you can here the top shots saying they think it will be won with a 90 so and so, they never say that will be won with a 100 straight.

I think there should be tough targets at all shoots we won't learn and they need to be there to sort the top boys out.

Don,t think you can really say what a shoot SHOULD or SHOULD'nt be won on,someone will always shoot out of their skin and put a big score in whatever the targets, and this can happen in any class but when the top 10 shooters in each class are shooting 2 class scores above their relevent class this tells you something. Yes i dare say shooters and equipment, guns cartridges are better now than they were in years gone by so why not alter the targets slightly to suit!!.Would it matter if a shoot was won on high 80s instead of high 90s,everyone would shoot 10 less so what By the way i,m no top shot,far from it but i get more satisfaction from killing a good target 40 -50 yard target than a straight going away 15 yard target.

 

[tiptop]

So a final thought from me when you go to some county champ shoots and some top guns drop 5-6 targets in the first few stands they pack up and go home rather than finish the coarse.

If it gets to tough that they don't hit 97-98 where will we be.

 

[teepee1234]

So a final thought from me when you go to some county champ shoots and some top guns drop 5-6 targets in the first few stands they pack up and go home rather than finish the coarse.

If it gets to tough that they don't hit 97-98 where will we be.

They should only be allowed to bomb out of a shoot with a note from their Mum.

 

[EdSolomons]

Depends- if it's a tough shoot they would carry on as they can still winnwith a low 90. If it's soft and they are having an off day they know they have already lost.

It's a horses for courses thing really as never going to please everyone. Over the years shots have definitely softened up, but people have got better as well. There are now 20 odd guys who can win a world championship, when I starte it was always between 4-5.

Do what I do- if you don't like a places targets, don't go! Simples!

 

[optima]

So a final thought from me when you go to some county champ shoots and some top guns drop 5-6 targets in the first few stands they pack up and go home rather than finish the coarse.

If it gets to tough that they don't hit 97-98 where will we be.

Thats exactly the point,the shoots are that soft that if you drop 5-6 targets you,ve got no chance of winning ,bit like DTL and Skeet, i,ve never not completed a shoot though,i like to get my money's worth,even if i blanked the first 2 stands i,d still complete the shoot.

 

[Chipper]

Think you may have a point there m8..... it seems since the worlds ground owners have decided to give targets away a bit too easily :huh: short term this may be the way forward ? but surely if you are in B or C shooting AA and AAA scores !!! won't this cause a un-balanced progression, enjoy it now and pay for it later me thinks I suppose there is limitless room in AA though ? so go for it......

Wasting ur time clynt, I can't see why C &B want shoot AA scores as will just get demoralised ? Sporting shouldn't be won with 99's 98's etc A class at most shots 90+ Etc,never mind plenty room in AA then birds only lower prize funds the rots then in !!!

 

[radrac]

Depends- if it's a tough shoot they would carry on as they can still winnwith a low 90. If it's soft and they are having an off day they know they have already lost.

It's a horses for courses thing really as never going to please everyone. Over the years shots have definitely softened up, but people have got better as well. There are now 20 odd guys who can win a world championship, when I starte it was always between 4-5.

Do what I do- if you don't like a places targets, don't go! Simples!

Ed, this seems to make sense...but for the following....someone can correct me if I am wrong, but George and Richard have won 12 of the last 15 World Sporting and World Fitasc titles...and if you are "having an off day" then that probably represents the majority of shooters in all classes, the shoot doesn't have to be easy or difficult for that to be the case; all it probably does is dictate the volatility of the scores between winner and losers (easy course= low vol, hard course=high vol).

I was tempted to explain why C class shooters winning with 80s should be considered normal by a lesson in applied statistics....but thought that would really bore the f**k out of everyone....but rest assured from a scientific stand point it is quite normal given C class averages and standard deviations.....!!!

 

[Chris B]

Wasting ur time clynt, I can't see why C &B want shoot AA scores as will just get demoralised ? Sporting shouldn't be won with 99's 98's etc A class at most shots 90+ Etc,never mind plenty room in AA then birds only lower prize funds the rots then in !!!

Chipper, you say there is plenty of room in AA, well in fact there is not as it is only the top 5% get into AAA the next 10% into AA, so however high the scores go you are still going to have the top shooters in the higher classes.

 

[timps]

Last cut off points were;

C. 67.5 and below

B. 67.6-74.7

A. 74.8-81.9

AA.82-86.3

AAA.86.4 and above

So are the shoots getting easier or are some people improving?

Not every shooter in their class is hittting the top score.Although some scores are two classes above the average.

The previous cut off was:

C 68.1 & below

B 68.2 -75.1

A 75.2 - 82.3

AAA 87.0 & above

AA 82.4 - 86.9

So that would indicate on averages alone the shoots have actually got tougher this last issue as the averages have gone down.The way the averages are worked out if everyone shoots high scores the cut off moves up as well keeping you in your correct class so AA should never become full.

To put it in perspective.

In 2009 I just did 2 reg shoots with one being a 79 in C.

I decided to get more into registered shooting in 2011 & had 91 and a shed load of 85’s in B so it’s not just a recent thing.

The problem is people then say it was a soft shoot as B is won on a 91.

I could shoot but just did not do much registered, in my opinion the problem is a lot of the lower class shooters can shoot but they have a limited target memory bank. The targets could be hard and as long as I had seen something similar before & it was then a high score for me, but put something new on and I would drop a few trying to work them out for the first time.

Also with the lower classes you will have a bogey target or targets, if a ground has stands with a few of these on then the scores drop, the week after no bogey targets then high score again, this keeps them in B class as they are up and down, also their bogie targets might be easy for you not just a hard target.

So with the lower classes you do get great fluctuations not seen with the higher classes as they have usually seen more presentations and worked on their bogie targets and been shooting longer.

You have to judge the class as a whole not just a couple of the high scores, so if everyone in C class is in the 80’s then it’s a soft shoot.

Also there are only so many ways a target setter can throw a clay and most of the top shots have seen them before so making a shoot hard without it being a silly lottery is becoming harder itself.

I thought the Grimsthorpe selection shoot this year did a good job on the toughness / enjoyable front.

I just judge myself on the rest of A class at that shoot and don’t bother about my average.

 

[Fuzrat]

Good post timps my problem is I firmly believe I have A class ability bit unfortunately that is allied with C class consistentcy at the moment

 

[GlenPresley]

Good post timps my problem is I firmly believe I have A class ability bit unfortunately that is allied with C class consistentcy at the moment

I like those dreams as well! Try not eating as much cheese in your diet!

 

[Fuzrat]

Can't remember how to do raspberries on my phone so bugger off will have to suffice

 

[Deleted member 753]

Give TipTop a break Clynt.

I remember the times I used to see you at Westfield and you said it had destroyed you! What do you want? Easy, hard, happy medium.

What do you think should be a winning score in ESP at present then?

85 to 90, 90 - 95? Give me a figure.

We (well I did anyway) start in C class (my first Westfield was 47, nearly sold the gun)

Be careful we do not set the bar too high and stop C class shots coming along.

Always a pleasure to hear your feedback Clynt!

Stew

 

[ExSCA]

My first Westfield was a 40-something as well - went straight back next time and won c-class on a 70 - even a blind squirrel finds an acorn. I don't think you can set an upper par, people are not predictable machines (apart from those ones that are a bit).

 

[sscottsmith1234]

Westfield has caught me out many a time, and always been a bogey ground for me, i really need to try and get there more often!

 

[tiptop]

Funny really you get the likes of ED AND A FEW OTHERS actively going ot of there way to help and encourage people new and old,then you get others saying that it must have been a soft shoot when the C class puts in a good round, lets make it harder.

Maybe they are getting worried as they can't keep up whith the big boys so lets slow the lower ranks down from catching up with us overtaking us and pushing us down the result sheet. :wink:

What do you think chipper/clynt

 

[teepee1234]

Hehehehe, Good one Tiptop! :.: :.:

 

[optima]

Just a thought matt' perhaps you ought to RE-name this thread as it,s under gunsite which seems unfair as this is about shoots in general and not just one' shoot in particular!