Gunsite 19/8

[tiptop]

Agree there as the original post was about a good day at gunsite

 

[ExSCA]

technical nightmare - let me have a look.

 

[Clynt]

Give TipTop a break Clynt.

I remember the times I used to see you at Westfield and you said it had destroyed you! What do you want? Easy, hard, happy medium.

What do you think should be a winning score in ESP at present then?

85 to 90, 90 - 95? Give me a figure.

We (well I did anyway) start in C class (my first Westfield was 47, nearly sold the gun)

Be careful we do not set the bar too high and stop C class shots coming along.

Always a pleasure to hear your feedback Clynt!

Stew

check my last few scores at westfields !!! seems I have kept at it and getting the hang of the grounds targets ??? any one can coach anybody to shoot straight at a target basic ability and reasonable gunfit will get you 70 at most soft shoots all chipper and I are saying is this .....shooting easy floppy targets will only make you able to shoot easy floppy targets, and if that's what you want, fine, we understand we are a minority in sporting for wanting to be tested by 50yd crossers,teal and loopers and not having to put up with targets that imp cyl and feltwad 8's are over gunning it .....we pay the same as you each week and may be when you have been shooting long enough your views may change. don't think it is to much to ask to have a balanced shoot with a bit for every one not 90% of the shoot for you guys .and as for scores to win never look at it that way m8 I tend to judge my score away from winner and how well I hit what I hit but I like to see clays at distance requiring good gaps and feel this is and was what a shot gun was designed to do............

 

[tiptop]

Clynt i think you are right we do need a couple of stands with testing targets on, with moderate to hard for the rest. If i wanted to shoot floppy targets i would go to strawbalers.

Whether a shoot is hard, moderate or easy credit should be given where credit is due.

As i said about looking at the final score and see where you are.

 

[Deleted member 753]

check my last few scores at westfields !!! seems I have kept at it and getting the hang of the grounds targets ??? any one can coach anybody to shoot straight at a target basic ability and reasonable gunfit will get you 70 at most soft shoots all chipper and I are saying is this .....shooting easy floppy targets will only make you able to shoot easy floppy targets, and if that's what you want, fine, we understand we are a minority in sporting for wanting to be tested by 50yd crossers,teal and loopers and not having to put up with targets that imp cyl and feltwad 8's are over gunning it .....we pay the same as you each week and may be when you have been shooting long enough your views may change. don't think it is to much to ask to have a balanced shoot with a bit for every one not 90% of the shoot for you guys .and as for scores to win never look at it that way m8 I tend to judge my score away from winner and how well I hit what I hit but I like to see clays at distance requiring good gaps and feel this is and was what a shot gun was designed to do............

fair comment Clynt, but I still don't get it?

If the grounds are catering for us (the guys who have not been shooting long enough), tell me where the grounds are where you see better testing targets and stands that will test you? Who are the soft shoots?

 

[Clynt]

fair comment Clynt, but I still don't get it?

If the grounds are catering for us (the guys who have not been shooting long enough), tell me where the grounds are where you see better testing targets and stands that will test you? Who are the soft shoots?

westfields stands out as a ground which will put you where you really are currently ability wise. Longridge can produce some awesome shoots (the extreme shoots ) in particular. the county championships here this year was one of the best shoots i've been to, edgehill and,urchfont in their prime, and currently I do enjoy trips to Orston, Wyley, and Newbold but thats my sort of enjoyment ?? ground owners are not in it for the praise or prejudice but to make a good living, and they have to supply what they feel people want, so if what you want is fluffy type targets go to shoots where you can get what you personally want, there are plenty of grounds to choose from, you need to sort out what you want, I am just trying to see a better future for sporting, because the class system we have is not doing it's job at the moment ........to reiterate what as already been said on this specific blog this is not a reflection of gunsite's shoot last weekend but a general thought of target quality lately ......who ever came up with the terminology "speed and angles " wants a good poke in the eye ...

 

[Deleted member 753]

I agree with you Clynt, this is no reflection on the Gunsite shoot. I shot poorly and still enjoyed it. Still a good Sunday out whatever.

So what do you mean by the class system is all wrong (sorry, your quote was not doing it's job)?

How would you change it to make it even across all classes, and keep all classes still entering Registerd shoots?

 

[Clynt]

My view on the current class system may not be to every ones feelings but to me if the shoots were a lot harder then the current cut-offs would be fine, but when you have to shoot A and AA Class averages to pick up any winnings on offer in C class this cannot be right, I would surmise that to win C class with a B class top average should be the aim of a said C class shooter, there will be exceptions but for me I just don't understand why there is the almighty ego rush for the lower classes to shoot big scores, if I could win prizes and stay in my lower class by doing tough shoots I know what I would DOING ???????? WHAT YOU ALL SHOULD BE SAYING TO SHOOT OWNERS IS " I'M NOT COMING BACK IT;S TOO EASY AND I WILL END UP IN THE WRONG CLASS.... ( IF ONLY CARLSBERG DID SHOOTS) HAHAHA

 

[Darkside]

but when you have to shoot A and AA Class averages to pick up any winnings on offer in C class this cannot be right, I would surmise that to win C class with a B class top average should be the aim of a said C class shooter, there will be exceptions but for me I just don't understand why there is the almighty ego rush for the lower classes to shoot big scores, if I could win prizes and stay in my lower class by doing tough shoots I know what I would DOING ????????

Well I was averageing mid 60's, got coaching and jumped to low 80's in the last 2 shoots, I have leapfrogged the other C class guys who were beating me (some of whch are now in B) .......as far as the class systme goes, my two 80's will punt me into B, if I shoot to this standard in the 2 remaining Scotish fixtures come January I may end up in A, no ego rush, I know I will just have to work harder and raise my game if I am to compeate in A class!!!

 

[o danny boy]

First of all, i think Gunsite shoot was a good one, targets were all hittable and a good variity.

I think people are starting to worry a bit too much about one soft shoot here and there, averages are taken over a twelve month period so the odd hard shoot and the odd easy shoot cancel each other out. My averages over the last three weeks including the world are about right, in my oppinion distance of target or difficulty levels are not that important. For me the most important thing is that the targets are changed from shoot to shoot, so people don't get false averages shooting the same targets over and over again.

 

[Chris B]

If we did away with the class system, and all shot comp only. this would stop all the talk of soft shoots and sandbagging as your average would mean nothing on the day. It would allow a payout down to 12th place and it should give you more incentive to improve. And for people who say its not fair, do you think its fair that a AA class shot can shoot 90 and come 4th yet receive nothing, but a C class shot can shoot 75 and get £150.

 

[Fuzrat]

so basically you are saying we should all pay into the prize pot with not a hope in hell of getting a draw until we have served our 10 year apprenticeship and got into AA or top of A equivalent? I see lots of straw balers popping up and some very lonely rounds in your future.

 

[tiptop]

If we did away with the class system, and all shot comp only. this would stop all the talk of soft shoots and sandbagging as your average would mean nothing on the day. It would allow a payout down to 12th place and it should give you more incentive to improve. And for people who say its not fair, do you think its fair that a AA class shot can shoot 90 and come 4th yet receive nothing, but a C class shot can shoot 75 and get £150.

So the other 100+ shooters subsidise the top 12 shooters til year dot with no return or incentive for years.

How often do you see an A,B,C in the top 12.

 

[tiptop]

Beat me to it Fuz

 

[Fuzrat]

Regarding tough targets I see Westfield has become a bit of a benchmark, therefore same course setter for the worlds, was this in the collective opinion tough enough or too much?

I thought it was spot on and shot just about my adjusted average. Thought it had enough birds there that needed a decent gap. the r-l high crosser on blue and the battue on red spring to mind along with a few others on red. What were your thoughts on Red Clynt? I thought blue was tougher but I shot better :huh:

 

[Chris B]

So the other 100+ shooters subsidise the top 12 shooters til year dot with no return or incentive for years.

How often do you see an A,B,C in the top 12.

How do you think those top twelve shooters became that good, I bet its scary the amount of money they have spent to become that good. Is the incentive to get into the top twelve not enough for you?

 

[teepee1234]

My view on the current class system may not be to every ones feelings but to me if the shoots were a lot harder then the current cut-offs would be fine, but when you have to shoot A and AA Class averages to pick up any winnings on offer in C class this cannot be right, I would surmise that to win C class with a B class top average should be the aim of a said C class shooter, there will be exceptions but for me I just don't understand why there is the almighty ego rush for the lower classes to shoot big scores, if I could win prizes and stay in my lower class by doing tough shoots I know what I would DOING ???????? WHAT YOU ALL SHOULD BE SAYING TO SHOOT OWNERS IS " I'M NOT COMING BACK IT;S TOO EASY AND I WILL END UP IN THE WRONG CLASS.... ( IF ONLY CARLSBERG DID SHOOTS) HAHAHA

An "ego rush for the lower classes to shoot big scores...."??

Wanting to improve is perceived as an ego rush???

Either I've completely misunderstood the basis of your argument, or I can't honestly believe what I'm reading. I'm mystified that you think that us "lower classes" should be happy to stay there. On the one hand, you're saying the shoots are too easy, then you say you'd be happy to stay in a lower class if you could win prizes! Sorry, but this makes no sense.

You seem set on blaming the ground owners, but don't appear to want to accept that every shooter, no matter the class, can have a good day and bang in a decent score when it all comes together, that we can improve by practice and coaching, that in fact, this is exactly what a lot of us "lower classes" are striving for! And conversely, the "higher classes" can have a bad day when it goes TU for them.

I'm shaking my head in disbelief.

 

[tiptop]

Plus how much did they pick up, Ive still got to pay the same amount of money to become that good even if i reach that high.

I still have to pay entry,buy cartridges,fuel,etc

 

[Fuzrat]

How do you think those top twelve shooters became that good, I bet its scary the amount of money they have spent to become that good.

thats their choice, but this is after all trying to be portrayed as a sport for all. Not sure the grounds could afford to pay down to 12th the likes of Crazy Bear and Greenfield entertainments who run quality open shoots would be rubbing their hands with glee!

 

[tiptop]

An "ego rush for the lower classes to shoot big scores...."??

Wanting to improve is perceived as an ego rush???

Either I've completely misunderstood the basis of your argument, or I can't honestly believe what I'm reading. I'm mystified that you think that us "lower classes" should be happy to stay there. On the one hand, you're saying the shoots are too easy, then you say you'd be happy to stay in a lower class if you could win prizes! Sorry, but this makes no sense.

You seem set on blaming the ground owners, but don't appear to want to accept that every shooter, no matter the class, can have a good day and bang in a decent score when it all comes together, that we can improve by practice and coaching, that in fact, this is exactly what a lot of us "lower classes" are striving for! And conversely, the "higher classes" can have a bad day when it goes TU for them.

I'm shaking my head in disbelief.

Exactly that teepee they say go get coaching spend a fortune whatever and when you improve and win a few quid its a soft shoot,and your in the wrong class now