I don't see lead..do you?

[AW13]

Call me odd but it does not matter how much I try I never see lead and have no idea what people mean when they say you need X lead or add another couple of feet etc.

That got me wondering, for those of you who do see lead do you calculate how much in front of the clay to pull the trigger for different presentations? 

Is it a conscious thing or sub-conscious?  I sometimes hear people say "I shot all around it but could not get on it"? Seems odd to me.

I shoot slightly gun down typically, unless it is a fast close clay or a trap type presentation. I focus on the clay and move the gun in what I think is the logical trajectory line.  A coach just said to me carry on what you are doing....

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Will Hewland]

Call me odd but it does not matter how much I try I never see lead and have no idea what people mean when they say you need X lead or add another couple of feet etc.

That got me wondering, for those of you who do see lead do you calculate how much in front of the clay to pull the trigger for different presentations? 

Is it a conscious thing or sub-conscious?  I sometimes hear people say "I shot all around it but could not get on it"? Seems odd to me.

I shoot slightly gun down typically, unless it is a fast close clay or a trap type presentation. I focus on the clay and move the gun in what I think is the logical trajectory line.  A coach just said to me carry on what you are doing....

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

For Skeet or trap I guess your method is maybe OK (I’m not an expert in either).

For sporting, you will have to see lead if you want to progress to any sort of medium level or above. I hear people say that they get on fine like this, but it’s the same as when they say a Browning Cynergy is a good gun. Show me a AA shooter who doesn’t see lead or shoots a Cynergy.

It is simply not possible to CONSISTENTLY hit long targets by slashing the gun so fast that the lead “just happens”. It is also the case on long targets that line is critical, as no clay flies straight for long, but will arc. Take a 50 yard battue for instance.. So on longer targets you must account for the line which is very hard with a single fast swing-through type movement. In summary, while there are a few ways of doing it, you must be picking out a spot in the sky which is some place ahead of the clay when you pull the trigger. Personally I feel one of the strongest tips I could give is to be moving at (almost) the same speed as the clay so that the visual gap is VERY obvious. I accept that we can each describe the amount of lead differently, but the important thing is that you see what you did and only then can you reproduce or alter it. 

 

[Ocean19]

Personally, I think it’s subconscious. I am sceptical when people say a target needs 9 ft of lead when it’s 45 yards away. How does anyone know what 9ft looks like 45 yards away? I certainly don’t.

If someone throws a ball at you, to your left or right, but still reachable, you just reach out and intercept it. The same brain process that enables you to do that, enables you to put lead on target. That’s how I see it anyway.

I also think that lead is the least of a shooters worries. It’s figuring our why you over or under lead and then changing that.

 

[El Spavo]

Read on here recently that someone was taught instead of finite numbers like 4ft lead or 2" lead or whatever, they were started off with either hit it, hit the front edge, a little in front or loads in front and to me that seems like a good way to measure it at first until you start knowing and perceiving what you're seeing and hitting.

Having said that, I'm still sh*te, it's just it sounded sensible to me.

 

[Bebo]

I always see lead.  I couldn't tell you what the distance is out at the target, because I personally see it at the end of the gun.

I'm coming to the view the perceived lead is going to be different for every individual.  For example, my brother will often say something needs a lot of lead when I might consider it a middling amount.  We shoot very differently.  He tends to shoot maintained lead all the time and is a much more measured shot than I am, I'll almost always have the gun travelling quicker than the target on anything that needs significant lead.  Even on slow stuff, I prefer to use a controlled swing through from behind the target as maintained lead results in me slowing / stopping the gun, whilst on very quick targets I'll often pull away from a starting point in front of the target (again, if I try to use the cpsa method I end up dithering about trying to match the target too long).  As a result, I'm still increasing lead in the time between my brain sending the signal to my finger to pull the trigger and the gun firing, whereas he'll be seeing the full lead at that point.

Don't think it matters what way you do it, you just need to keep doing it until it becomes second nature and you almost don't need to think about what lead you should be seeing on a particular target.

 

[Hamster]

If you don't see lead you'll certainly notice it on your score card.  

It is of course true that many targets won't need much if any and that occasionally quartering rabbits as well as regular clays will appear to break without visible lead but that is the product of our senses being a nano second behind high barrel speed. 

I can relate to those who see lead at the muzzle as well as at the clay, roughly speaking an inch at the former is about a foot at the latter. 

 

[MartynB]

I can understand why you don’t see lead .  I can shoot an awful lot of targets this way , but there is a but , at some point on some targets I have to see a gap.  Personally I always struggle with seeing “ measured “ lead , I couldn’t  tell you what 10 foot looked like on a 160’ driven clay , but I can  get on the line  see a gap , then If I miss it , I can double  the gap  , or half the gap ,  because I can relate to that “ Unit “ .  Extremely  Consistent  shots ( not claiming I’m the one by the way ) shoot so many quality  targets and variations of targets  that they have a memory bank of sight pictures that they can apply when they see the line , distance and the speed .  You often see the cracks develop when you take a  weekend club shooter  to one of the professional grounds that have the space and equipment to present top class targets . Without some sort of a system tackling new targets,  on long targets chuck it and chance is bound to fail . 

 

[ips]

I never saw lead on trap i dont see lead on pigeon or game, having said that i am not particularly good at either of the latter two so draw your own conclusions

 

[DavidJ]

I don't understand how people don't see lead. Although I'm looking at the clay I'm still seeing the bead in my vision... I'm not good at giving lead a number to tell someone else as I think it's personal and as long as I'm consistent with my own sight pictures that's all that matters.

People who say they have shot all around it are simply trying different leads and lines without success.

I also think that lead is the least of a shooters worries. It’s figuring our why you over or under lead and then changing that.

That seems a bit of a contradiction... If lead is the least of a shooters worries then it can only be the line that is wrong!!!! 

 

[MartynB]

I don't understand how people don't see lead 

Have you never been caught out by a bird  ( clay or feathered ) ? where perhaps you were looking in the wrong place , then just saw a streak in your peripheral vision  mounted the gun , pulled the trigger and killed it .  

I can honestly say if I see the bead at any time I’m stuffed ,  A mate of mine was having a lesson after hitting a sticky patch , at some point in the lesson the instructor removed his front bead and didn’t give him it back ! 

 

[Will Hewland]

Have you never been caught out by a bird  ( clay or feathered ) ? where perhaps you were looking in the wrong place , then just saw a streak in your peripheral vision  mounted the gun , pulled the trigger and killed it .  

I can honestly say if I see the bead at any time I’m stuffed ,  A mate of mine was having a lesson after hitting a sticky patch , at some point in the lesson the instructor removed his front bead and didn’t give him it back ! 

You can see lead without focusing on the bead of course. 

 

[El Spavo]

On That, I've found that recently I put my head forward just a touch so the bead and the mid barrel bead make a sort of 8 when i fit the gun up and after that I don't notice it at all, it's all in front of me with my vision on the clay.

Helped me aim anyway,... let's me concentrate on missing the target with aplomb!

 

[Will Hewland]

On That, I've found that recently I put my head forward just a touch so the bead and the mid barrel bead make a sort of 8 when i fit the gun up and after that I don't notice it at all.

Exactly why the bead and mid bead are there, for you to check your set up. ONLY!

 

[DavidJ]

I always see the bead in my peripheral vision and its sharp. Very rarely do I not see it. If I'm caught out by a clay then I haven't planned my shot very well. 

 

[MartynB]

You can see lead without focusing on the bead of course. 

Absolutely , that’s how I apply any forward allowance . 

 

[No Bunny]

I think the biggest problem for us ladies is that the men all tell us that the lead is a lot longer than it actually is...  

 

[Will Hewland]

I think the biggest problem for us ladies is that the men all tell us that the lead is a lot longer than it actually is...  

But you expect the line to be dead straight while usually there’s a bit of a bend in it..

 

[No Bunny]

But you expect the line to be dead straight while usually there’s a bit of a bend in it..

Indeed we do, but a gentle curve can often increase the pleasure of hitting the target...

 

[AW13]

Tried and tried to see lead. If I do or catch sight of the bead it is a guaranteed miss.

I will try again this weekend.