I don't see lead..do you?

[Will Hewland]

Tried and tried to see lead. If I do or catch sight of the bead it is a guaranteed miss.

I will try again this weekend.

Obviously you need to find a longer crossing target ideally. Focus only on the clay, let the muzzle be in your peripheral vision and once you have pulled ahead, try matching the speed of the clay for a second. 

 

[DavidJ]

Tried and tried to see lead. If I do or catch sight of the bead it is a guaranteed miss.

I will try again this weekend.

Point at the corner of a room, stare hard at it. I'm sure you can still see your finger! Still staring hard at the corner move your finger 6 inches left or right to track the wall/ceiling joint. i can still see my finger.

When I shoot a crosser I mount to my pickup point, the bead is on or just below the clay, I then track, pull ahead and pull the trigger when I see the picture I think will break the clay. If it doesn't I try really hard not to repeat that picture...easier said then done!!!

If I shoot swing through it's not so fast that I can't see some lead unless its within 20 yards or so, when I probably do shoot at the front edge with a small amount of gun speed.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

Call me odd but it does not matter how much I try I never see lead and have no idea what people mean when they say you need X lead or add another couple of feet etc.

That got me wondering, for those of you who do see lead do you calculate how much in front of the clay to pull the trigger for different presentations? 

Is it a conscious thing or sub-conscious?  I sometimes hear people say "I shot all around it but could not get on it"? Seems odd to me.

I shoot slightly gun down typically, unless it is a fast close clay or a trap type presentation. I focus on the clay and move the gun in what I think is the logical trajectory line.  A coach just said to me carry on what you are doing....

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

not trying to be clever or rude   but do you shoot cpsa competitions ?     because if you do  whats your hit rate ?      also  what a strange thing for a coach to say  !!      not very constructive ! 

 

[Westward]

Tried and tried to see lead. If I do or catch sight of the bead it is a guaranteed miss.

It must be a bit tricky for you when the AAA shooter who's just hit them all advises you to double you lead?

Incidentally, I see lead but I don't see the bead. If you're fully focussed on the clay the barrels/bead are well out of the depth of field and pretty much ghosted, so your eyes should not be drawn away from the clay.

 

[westley]

I think the biggest problem for us ladies is that the men all tell us that the lead is a lot longer than it actually is...  

When I ran a shooting ground or was Instructing a group of Ladies, I carried a 6" rule in my pocket. After the opening safety talk, I would add "Ladies, on this ground, THIS is six inches"

 

[chippy]

I wish I never see lead. Getting to wrong with not enough or too much accounts for 75% of my missing. I would be AAA overnight if I didn't see any.

 

[Gazz]

Great opening question, and some very good contributors.   Last week I shot my first 50 bird round on the normal stands and my lead was terrible.  I pretty much missed every crosser and even struggled with an easy rising pair coming towards me.  I really did not feel too bad about it and still thoroughly enjoyed myself.  I feel that every shot was behind the clays so I will make a conscious effort to move well ahead before the shot.  Lovin it.....  

 

[bisondan]

Normally the faster and further out the target is the more lead I see

 

[MartynB]

Great opening question, and some very good contributors.   Last week I shot my first 50 bird round on the normal stands and my lead was terrible.  I pretty much missed every crosser and even struggled with an easy rising pair coming towards me.  I really did not feel too bad about it and still thoroughly enjoyed myself.  I feel that every shot was behind the clays so I will make a conscious effort to move well ahead before the shot.  Lovin it.....  

Here’s my unqualified two pence worth . For a while , if it’s possible don’t shoot at pairs of any kind .  If it’s an informal shoot where you are buttoning for yourself and it’s not going to cause an queues just shoot  it as 50 singles . Don’t forget you have two barrels , if you miss with the first keep the gun swinging, use the second ,   getting you used to increasing lead   .  

If you’re shooting with mates for fun ( and not putting  your card in )  you can always ask them to only send the second clay if you break the first , and  also get them to send sim pairs as “ on report “ .  If you do well on a stand as singles you can ask them for a pair . 

Weve been doing that with a new shooter recently . 

Build your confidence slowly ,  you don’t need to master every target at once .

 

[El Spavo]

Good advice, might try that. Recently had a bit of trouble hitting a single r-l crosser and Owls Lodge, then starting hitting it, then missed it again. Only thing I might find is I don't know if I'll have the wherewithal at the speed the clay goes to carry on if I miss it with the first shot, but I might give it a go. Can see the logic though; getting a picture of what you're hitting.

 

[DavidJ]

Good advice, might try that. Recently had a bit of trouble hitting a single r-l crosser and Owls Lodge, then starting hitting it, then missed it again. Only thing I might find is I don't know if I'll have the wherewithal at the speed the clay goes to carry on if I miss it with the first shot, but I might give it a go. Can see the logic though; getting a picture of what you're hitting.

What method would you use to shoot the crosser? Your speed of gun movement should be as fast or slightly faster so you should be able to track the clay for a second shot if you miss first shot.

Plan your shot, kill point, visual pickup point and hold point. Seek out Smokin Targets on youtube. Ben's methods are well worth a try. they work for me. Just wish I could get more practice time.

 

[El Spavo]

In my head, and possibly in reality, that first clip with the crosshair overtaking the target is what I think I do. Crossers aren't a massive problem, I've consistantly hit some rangey ones that more experienced shooters in my section couldn't work out at Barbury, it was just one of those things on the day I think, and it's just a case of getting mental images to be able to rely on to know where I'm meant to be shooting to hit it every time. At the moment I haven't got enough experience.

 

[Will Hewland]

In my head, and possibly in reality, that first clip with the crosshair overtaking the target is what I think I do. Crossers aren't a massive problem, I've consistantly hit some rangey ones that more experienced shooters in my section couldn't work out at Barbury, it was just one of those things on the day I think, and it's just a case of getting mental images to be able to rely on to know where I'm meant to be shooting to hit it every time. At the moment I haven't got enough experience.

Get out there every week! 

 

[El Spavo]

Might make every other week, don't think I can afford 52 shoots a year!

 

[Jonny English]

I never see the barrels or the bead when shooting, I look into a patch of open air a certain distance in front of the clay. For gauging the lead at distance the clay is your reference dimension a lot of the time, this is why course setters can catch you out with mini and midi clays at times.

 

[MartynB]

Might make every other week, don't think I can afford 52 shoots a year!

Neither can a lot of those who actually shoot that amount  and more  it’s a sort of crack cocaine for those who don’t do drugs ! 

On the other hand some of the guys  including U.K. and World Championsc who are like  precision machines on clays and game , are spending six figure sums a year , so don’t ever berate yourself if you never pull off those “ You Tube “ performances .  A few weeks ago after a lesson on high driven , as no one was about I had a pop at a shot I’d seen on YouTube . 55 yards out , 60 yards high off the tower , 34gm of Turbo Nutter #5 , I missed 5 out of 5 : at the  time the instructor said  “it’s a whole other lesson to even get near one .. “ and I’ve been shooting for 40 years . 

.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

The "instinctive" swing-thru school does not need to see lead.  I don't see lead and I'd bet vital body parts that no fast trap or Oly Skeet shooter does.  And if the OS crossers are not high level nasty (not to mention low gun and delay pull) I can't imagine what is.  And then there are the helice and box bird shooters that don't even have a target going in a straight line.  Lead that!  Personally I've never had the time to scope out the lead and I totally envy anyone with a nervous system that functions at a rate so that they can.

 

[AW13]

The "instinctive" swing-thru school does not need to see lead.  I don't see lead and I'd bet vital body parts that no fast trap or Oly Skeet shooter does.  And if the OS crossers are not high level nasty (not to mention low gun and delay pull) I can't imagine what is.  Personally I've never had the time to scope out the lead and I totally envy anyone with a nervous system that functions at a rate so that they can.

I feel much the same.

When I occasionally shoot skeet or DTL I don't see anything but the clay. If I look at the barrel/rib/bead or even try and see any lead I miss.  

 

[chippy]

I've tried the fast gun swing through method but it feels so uncontrolled ,even at skeet distances the gun is moving so fast I have no idea where I've missed.

 

[AW13]

@chippy.

Looks like our shooting styles are very different and we see [or do not see] very different things when shooting. Fascinating.