It’s how far?

[Lloyd]

Not as far as some would like us to think apparently.

I’ve never been great at estimating distance but have been getting better at it through shooting and actively measuring out distance while my children hold up a clay in the local park.

Those 70 yarders I was told I hit... well, they’re more like 50! Maybe 60 at a push.

That said, I’ve no idea yet how this will be useful, as I’ve also started to learn I’m seeing things differently than I used to as I’m becoming more aware of speed, angle, line of a target to try to gue... figure out how lead is obtained. Certainly I’ve given up any fantasies of calculating anything.

One thing I’m curious about though and hopefully you fine chaps could enlighten me a bit is how we see lead differently to each other, but also does perception of lead change as you gain experience? 

I'm finding I’m seeing things quite differently than some and I think I’m seeing lead differently than perhaps I used to.

It really depends on the presentation. Slow floaty crossers (seem way faster in video than when shooting them) I’m really now having to shoot the back edge for a good kill. Similarly with overhead going away, I’m having to shoot the top edge. Whereas with rabbits, I’m actually pulling out a small measurable lead, which is I believe contrary to how some folks shoot them. With a looper or a crosser, I’m again ‘measuring’ out a gap of a few inches at the barrels, yet I no longer really look at the barrels.

Still perplexing. The more I learn, the more I understand how little I have learned and how much more there is to learn is incomprehensible.

Your thoughts and experiences as ever, most appreciated.

 

[paul b]

Whilst i dont want to get drawn into what is a huge subject with so many different interpretations,ill share this with you.

I was talking to a very good AA sporting shooter about a tidy looper at the british open finals day and said i was annoyed at being inconsistent on it as its more or less the same target ive shot regularly at a club i frequent,and its only a smallish gap needed,he said 20foot aint small. So here we have 2 people talking about the same target seeing totally different leeds,he sees it at the clay end and i see it at the muzzle end but method and gun speed will be another factor.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

it's all just a matter of perspective

 

[Martinj]

it's an interesting subject, I usually see lead as feet in front of the bird, I was giving a fast-ish looper 8 feet at the weekend but swinging through which complicates matters.

My mate (a good shot) swings through accelerating until such time as he feels ready to let rip, he can't say how much he has given any target, (I do this sometimes depending on the target, usually closer ones.)

I'd ask another mate how much lead he sees and he would hold his fingers 2 inches apart so he sees lead at the end of the barrel, something I never do.

Yet another mate, a first class shot, sees lead in degrees, maybe 5-10 degrees, with himself at the fulcrum but he's mad on flying and sees the target as a fighter pilot would.

 

[bisondan]

Distance is something that's easily over-estimated, especially on the game scene.  The amount of people I've heard say how many 60 yard pheasants they've shot on a single drive is a good one, as 60 yards is 1.5 times the height of the highest towers at Sporting Targets, put them under that and they'd think again.

Personally I see a fair bit of lead where I shoot 85% either maintained lead (yes it does exist) and pull away, and I've certainly developed a bank of sight pictures over the last few years and this definitely comes with experience and shooting at different grounds and getting used to the terrain.  

 

[wynno]

Lloyd, don’t over analyse things, everyone see’s things differently, from lead, to distance, to speed. Just shoot the target and enjoy yourself

 

[MartynB]

I shoot with two friends who talk to each other in feet . They can’t understand that I can’t see feet out there in the air ,  I don’t see a 5 bar gate gap  , haven’t a clue what space a  double decker bus is  40 yards out .  They can communicate effectively  with each other  but not With me . All I know is to double the gap I see or half the gap . I rely upon different gun speeds as well .  When and how I apply the lead is another matter I just look at a target go to my memory bank and think that needs combination xyz  . As an example the other week one mate was saying he was giving 4’ of lead on a crossing rabbit . In my mind I was shooting at the back of it and using gun speed to push on and finish the shot .Both of us hit it every time . So who’s right . 
 

I’ve got a cheap chinese 3x magnification golf range finder  that I use with rifles . It’s an interesting game with mates to guess how far away an object is . It’s very rare that anyone under estimates anything.
 Even when it’s a known size like a horse or a telegraph pole , there are  plenty of over estimates though  . 

 

[El Spavo]

Glad this came up, as for ages I was deluding myself that I'm somehow doing it wrong or simply couldn't be a better shooter because of a lack of similarity to how others describe lead cos I see things very linear, ie. it's all in inches to me, like one could reach out and touch the clay. I guess that's what is described above as measuring from the barrel? My mate rationalised that he sees it in feet (which seems the norm) because a standard clay is 110mm so once you know that you can multiply that size by x to get the amount of feet in front you need or you are.

Makes absolute, logical, total sense, but I still find it easier describing it in inches.

 

[Guest]

surely if two people are hitting and describing the same target and both hitting , one with a few inches lead and the other with four feet ,one is shooting swing through/fast pull away , whilst the other is maintained lead . even if the first is measuring at the barrels whilst the other is measuring at the target ,there again that depends on the distance and with a four foot lead thats not close(or super fast!) ,strange how we percieve things eh

 

[JoostB]

Lloyd, don’t over analyse things, everyone see’s things differently, from lead, to distance, to speed. Just shoot the target and enjoy yourself

That is a fine line. I shoot clay every saturday. I am still in a steep learning curve. (started a year ago) But I do overthink what went right and what went wrong the last time, and prepare myself mentally to take out these errors the next Saturday. For me that works well. Of course it is still a two steps forward, one step back thing with ups and downs. I am talking technique now. Building that lead image bank just takes shooting many clays.

I could just go and shoot the targets and have a nice time. For me personally that would mean a slower learning curve. I am eager to learn and push myself. That gives me probably half the joy of the shooting.

 

[Will Hewland]

I think it’s very important for people to see lead in the way that makes sense to them. I see it as how it actually is, in realistic feet at the clay. If everybody else can make it work in their own completely wrong way then that’s their right.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

If everybody else can make it work in their own completely wrong way then that’s their right.

So, then it's just like politics and sex, right?

 

[jwpzx9r]

Well I have just got back from the ground never saw any lead. I never shot badly by any means but packed after two rounds of UT thought F this I am not enjoying this at all striped my gun down and headed home. It has been a odd season due to COVID and lock down but I am on the point of packing it in and selling up my guns I just seem to have lost my enthusiasm. After my first round I watched a couple of guys shooting DTL first time I have seen it shot ... I would rather strip paint off a garage door with a pen knife than waste my time doing that though... a bit like carp fishing with the sense of urgency removed 

 

[ColinD]

Why weren't you enjoying it

 

[jwpzx9r]

Why weren't you enjoying it

Hard to believe but I was actually between shots asking myself why I had driven 95km to do what I was doing! It has been a strange season with lockdown taking a major chunk out of it and all the competitions I was going to shoot being cancelled... seems to have drained my drive. I have not even shot one club competition this year never mnid bigger championships. I actually was hammering some targets and there was no joy at their demise. I am hoping the winter break will rejuvenate me next spring .

 

[Will Hewland]

Hard to believe but I was actually between shots asking myself why I had driven 95km to do what I was doing! It has been a strange season with lockdown taking a major chunk out of it and all the competitions I was going to shoot being cancelled... seems to have drained my drive. I have not even shot one club competition this year never mnid bigger championships. I actually was hammering some targets and there was no joy at their demise. I am hoping the winter break will rejuvenate me next spring .

Practice shooting can be like that. Personally I can’t just stand in a field noisily smashing ashtrays for no reason. I barely stay awake. 

 

[ColinD]

Tend to make sure I'm not shooting on my own, helps to have friends around, even if it's just to have them taking the pee out of me

 

[Bebo]

Must admit, I've lost my enthusiasm a bit at the moment as well.  I drove 420 mile round trip the other week to shoot in the British Open and I think I actually enjoyed the drive more than I was enjoying the shooting.  It just all felt like very hard work, I wasn't shooting well and just got the point where I didn't really car anymore. It took what felt like an age to get around and I did question myself a few times on the way around why I was bothering. 

Had a practice shoot on Saturday morning and even then I didn't really enjoy it, bored by the targets and annoyed with arseholes who don't understand social distancing.  I'm amazed they can hit anything, because they certainly can't judge what 2m is when it comes to standing back waiting for their go.

 

[Lloyd]

annoyed with arseholes who don't understand social distancing.  I'm amazed they can hit anything, because they certainly can't judge what 2m is when it comes to standing back waiting for their go.

This made me chuckle, but completely understand. I was very touchy about this for a while after my father passed away in April.