Lead Shot Ban, in news again

[Richard59]

Yesterday saw the release of HSE Gov documents regarding the proposed ban on lead shot (for all shooting) did wade through a few pages (one being 200+) and it feels its inevitably going to happen, including clay only grounds and soon. The document, and will admit I’ve not waded through every page in detail appears to suggest that banning lead is the answer to so many ecological / environmental/ social / educational / financial problems that its the only way forward. 
 

 

[Jonny English]

I've had a brief through and it doesn't look good for lead. Just got to wait and see what the cpsa make of it when they've had time to digest it.

From my uneducated look it appeared that they have concluded a total ban on lead over a five year transtion period. But they may issue licenses for specific national and international disciplines where containment can be guaranteed. Think they have also recommended the banning of the sale of lead shot to guarantee compliance.

 

[Jan Powell]

I was overseas last week clay shooting and shot steel, somewhat reluctantly, for the first time. Initial impressions were mixed. It’s not the devil some present it as although it’s undoubtedly ballistically inferior to lead, noisy and, from a felt recoil point of view, only really manageable as a 24g load.

Interestingly, the use of steel and the risk of ricochet in the country I was visiting has led to ground changes. Almost all sporting grounds are over open countryside, there’s no targets more than 25 metres away and where there are solid structures nearby they’re all lined with soft padding.

Sporting’s not the dominant discipline there but here, I’ve little doubt a lead ban will cause real problems. Not that anyone will be able to afford it in 18 months time anyway!

 

[Jonny English]

Conclusion for hunting sports and rifles



Conclusion for just shotgun sports

 

[ColinD]

When will lead flashing on buildings be banned, never a mention of that running into water courses etc

Thousands of new builds going on and they still use lead

 

[TRINITY]

Quite depressing reading, although not suprising. However i suspect we have a few more years before the ban comes official and then there will be a lengthy transition period, i will have probably packed in shooting by then anyway.

 

[chesterse]

Yes agree with Trinity it is depressing. I can foresee a lead ban coming in without a viable alternative being available. As is is now who is going to invest in clay shooting with this uncertainty hanging over the future!

OK steel will do the job to a degree but what about the availability and cost. There is also the question about ricochet, damage to trees and long range effectiveness.

What about compensation for the thousands of guns which are not steel proofed?

Looks like a back door way of banning clay shooting to me!

 

[OlafUK]

And yet they do very little on plastic, which probably has more of a environmental impact then lead does. 

 

[MartynB]

What about compensation for the thousands of guns which are not steel proofed?

 The following is just my opinion, and I stand to be corrected .
 

Just about every serviceable gun with a 70mm chamber will shoot standard steel loads if the choke is suitable .   There  will be no great rush to change guns . If you have a multichoke it might just be a case of dropping down choke sizes .  With a fixed choke gun it might mean having the choke opened . There will be no need to have a  clay gun proofed for high performance steel loads , generally high performance will contain more shot weight and bigger shot sizes  relevant to  wildfowl or high game birds.  

 

[TRINITY]

And yet they do very little on plastic, which probably has more of a environmental impact then lead does. 

Yes totally agree, plastic has far more of an enviromental impact.

However back to clay shooting, as far as the safety aspect is concerned the trap disciplines should not be an issue i would have thought. Sporting layouts could easily be adapted, but skeet layouts me need a re think. 

As far as balistics are concerned, target spreeds and distances could be tweaked  to allow for this.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

the lead to steel  change , 5 years ?    no problem i will be tucked up in the old pine box !!   problem over .     its being so cheerful  keeps me optimistic  !!    

 

[Freddypip]

I will have a read of this. What annoys me on first review is why the HSE are writing this report. It would appear the matter was referred to them by DEFRA but it unclear why. The HSE are concerned with health & safety in the workplace so, under their own banner, should only be commenting on that aspect. The environment is another departments responsibility and any associated reports should not be issued by the HSE (even if there investigative resources are used).

 

[perazman]

Reading that, am I safe being in the same house as a lead cartridge! Deary me. You'd think it was a russian nerve agent the way they word it. Anything in it's vicinity is likely to die a horrible death.

Sadly our spineless associations have allowed this baseless narrative to prosper and it's now accepted.

Where does this leave fibre wad shoots? Sim days etc..

There is no econonic, viable alternative. Steel shot supply is limited and will become harder to get as demand increases with supply being controlled by the chinese.

The modern, woke, pc generation that now run our associations have well and truly shafted us.

PM.

 

[westley]

BASC have had the audacity to publish 4 different brands of Bismuth game cartridges in their current magazine. As if to rub it in, they have published the prices too. A 28 gram 2 1/2"  cartridge starts at ........ £1320/1000. average across all 4 brands.

 

[TRINITY]

Reading that, am I safe being in the same house as a lead cartridge! Deary me. You'd think it was a russian nerve agent the way they word it. Anything in it's vicinity is likely to die a horrible death.

They may also consider putting wide exclusion zones around all the sites of the old shooting grounds. It would be like having numerous mini Chernobyl's up and down the uk

 

[MartynB]

All joking apart , you’ve touched on quite a serious point. My working life was spent in the chemical industry . When we acquired or sold facilities , historic contamination sometimes going back  years and years was always part of the due diligence  . The remediation costs could be multiple millions . I certainly wouldn’t be hurrying to buy any land with historic contamination levels unless someone was underwriting any clean up that the Whitehall wonders might demand in the future . 
 

 

[k80ben]

Just returning from a coaching trip to dornsberg where steel is all u can use. 
 

if anyone knows of dornsberg they are known for the difficulty of the targets. This was no different 
 

28gm 7s the choice of all 350 competitors and no difference in performance on clays at all. Chondelles measured at 82m absolutely obliterated. Nothing will change to sporting and fitasc as the steel cartridges perform the same 
 

i shot 98/100 with 6/8s choke in both barrels. another student shot 94 with a full and full perazzi 

dornsberg is set in a forest and zero ricchocet.  
 

the future isn’t grim at all as for trap and skeet u could use sand 

 

[Jan Powell]

Yes totally agree, plastic has far more of an enviromental impact.

However back to clay shooting, as far as the safety aspect is concerned the trap disciplines should not be an issue i would have thought. Sporting layouts could easily be adapted, but skeet layouts me need a re think. 

As far as balistics are concerned, target spreeds and distances could be tweaked  to allow for this.

Skeet is probably the only discipline that will continue without alteration. It’s already shot fairly frequently with steel in the UK and overseas without issue. Steel is far from ideal for domestic trap but it’ll manage. International trap will probably continue with lead assuming loads are available. I’m afraid to say Sporting/FITASC will be hit the hardest and will need significant change to what is currently the norm. I’d imagine it’ll become something close to Sportrap.

Another significant issue is that of insurance. Many grounds prohibit the use of steel not because the ground owners have issue with it but because insurance companies, who are essentially risk averse, insert clauses into policies forbidding its use. The ricochet risk is considerable and I do wonder if the expense involved in modifying grounds to suit will be cost effective. 

I think the sport will adapt and overcome to a large degree but the grounds that survive will look very different to now.

 

[Deleted member 230]

I've had a brief through and it doesn't look good for lead. Just got to wait and see what the cpsa make of it when they've had time to digest it.

From my uneducated look it appeared that they have concluded a total ban on lead over a five year transtion period. But they may issue licenses for specific national and international disciplines where containment can be guaranteed. Think they have also recommended the banning of the sale of lead shot to guarantee compliance.

This is tongue in cheek right. ?? What will the cpsa make of it. . They are more concerned with getting rid of birds only and having you dress in suit to shoot. 

Tell you what bring it up at the agm.  See what happens. 

Jasper.