Market research question

[Brook Bank]

Very rarely do we 'give' a High Gun prize - when we do, we donate it - we don't take it out of the Shooter's Prize Fund. High Gun also wins 1st in class  reved:  

At BB we don't discount entry for minority classes (only trap or skeet comps here) - would a lady/junior/veteran ask a for a discount on their cartridges/new gun in a gun shop?  :hunter:   :hunter:  

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Nicola, do you know that its 20 years ago (1993) that we went to Biddenhouzen for the first time?   I think that its a better shoot now since Frank Hazenkamp started setting the targets!    Can you remember who put Barry Who's boots in the pond because they stank so much?

Excellant food, and drink (after shooting finished of course) super company and super prizes!

I've been back for the last 3 years on steel (I hate steel) but its worth it for the shoot! NO interference from FITASC officials as its not FITASC reg.,

reved:   :hunter:   :hunter:  

Those were the days eh Sireeeyyyl :wink:

Barry Who now has a bike shop in the Isle of Man.....!

Glen Presley keeps saying to go back. He shoots it each year. Fab shoot still.

 

[ips]

I am of the opinion of Bollox to classes who cares just pay further down the board. As for categories again who cares kids vets and ladies are all capable of competing on equal terms this is proven fact. Would you rather be 5th overall or win b class IMO i would rather the former but that's just my take on it. I shoot to shoot as well as i can and strive to be in top 25% with a hope that on occasions i can who hg doesn't happen often these days but that's the plan. Also i would rather win something like a trophy or a badge than a few quid as i would only spend the few quid on scotch and cigars.

 

[Dog Tyred]

Very rarely do we 'give' a High Gun prize - when we do, we donate it - we don't take it out of the Shooter's Prize Fund. High Gun also wins 1st in class  reved:  

At BB we don't discount entry for minority classes (only trap or skeet comps here) - would a lady/junior/veteran ask a for a discount on their cartridges/new gun in a gun shop?  :hunter:   :hunter:  

Obviously you are free to do as you wish but I would be interested to know how many minority shooters you actually get with that policy?

Thankfully my local trap shooting ground (Rugby) have seen the light and offer a discount for juniors when shooting comps, only on the birds mind. If they shoot full comp they have to pay the full comp uplift. It costs me a bloody fortune to have to pay for two full price for entries, cartridges, sausage sandwiches, tea, etc so any assistance is gratefully recieved.

Even with the discount my lad is still usually the only youngster there most Sundays so the policy to persuade more seniors to bring their lads and lasses along is not really working. Shooting is such an expensive sport I guess even with the discount on entries it's still too dear for many!

DT

 

[ips]

Its always been an expensive life style, keeps the riff raff out

 

[FloaterSi]

Obviously you are free to do as you wish but I would be interested to know how many minority shooters you actually get with that policy?

Thankfully my local trap shooting ground (Rugby) have seen the light and offer a discount for juniors when shooting comps, only on the birds mind. If they shoot full comp they have to pay the full comp uplift. It costs me a bloody fortune to have to pay for two full price for entries, cartridges, sausage sandwiches, tea, etc so any assistance is gratefully recieved.

Even with the discount my lad is still usually the only youngster there most Sundays so the policy to persuade more seniors to bring their lads and lasses along is not really working. Shooting is such an expensive sport I guess even with the discount on entries it's still too dear for many!

DT

First you say that Brook Bank's policy is wrong to not discount minorities, then you say that in your club that does discount, you son is the only youngster - I am confused.

 

[FloaterSi]

Its always been an expensive life style, keeps the riff raff out

Unfortunately there is plenty of rich riff raff around near me. Money != Class.

 

[Dog Tyred]

First you say that Brook Bank's policy is wrong to not discount minorities, then you say that in your club that does discount, you son is the only youngster - I am confused.

Fair point...but if they didn't offer that discount I would potentially not shoot as much so they would loose out on my and his entry also.

At least they are trying to encourage more youngsters.

I suspect that this game is just so damned expensive that a lot of shooters don't want (read can't afford) to encourage their children in to the sport. Imagine if your shooting cost twice as much it does currently!! Alternatively maybe it is something they want to keep just to themselves (a bit of me time as it were) not that I have any issue with that as I ride motorbikes for very same reason. Personally I really enjoy the time I spend with my lad shooting as its probably the only real father/son time we spend together.

Shooting is predominantly a mens game (just look at the entries on any weekend) but if we want the sport to grow then the sport needs to provide incentives to attract more junior shooters (excluding the riff-raff of course).

Hats off to Rugby for at least trying.

DT

 

[Richard59]

Most, nearly all reg shoots don't look to have the number of shooters to make the added classes viable / meaningful, for county / regional / national and major events yes but the main sat / sun reg shoots don't think so.

Cost is, when introducing new faces, probably the main driver so if the grounds / shoot promoter could offer substantially reduced entry costs to the juniors / colts and if appropriate ladies this reduction extra over and main the birds only discount? Obv these entrants taking up this incentive will also need to be classed BO.

It's all how much the shoot promoter wishes to "invest" as it's his profit that's at risk

 

[tiptop]

Why do we have to have incentives for women to be encouraged into the sport, there has never been incentives for men to get involved in the sport (not at any grounds that i have shot at anyway),load of old b****x to me. It's something you want to do or you don't.

As for juniors/colts all very well as it is the parents that have to foot the bill and as said how many of you would encourage your offspring to get involved if it doubled your costs?

At the end of the day it is the overall cost which is the over riding factor for anybody to get involved with this sport, as with any expensive sport/pastime.

 

[Jaykaysea]

Why do we have to have incentives for women to be encouraged into the sport, there has never been incentives for men to get involved in the sport (not at any grounds that i have shot at anyway),load of old b****x to me. It's something you want to do or you don't.

Sigh.......

 

[DoubleBarrelledDon]

women and youngsters should definitely be encouraged and it is a balancing act....if "little Johnny" turns up with his dad in a brand new Vogue and with a shiny new K-80 under his arm then what on earth is the sense in giving him a discounted rate when he can obviously afford it.......

There are ground owners who give discretionary discounts / support for youngsters, ladies etc who are regulars and I applaud that, though yes, for a competition day I appreciate its a more complicated issue.....

 

[Sian]

In truth I don't care about prizes or money, a part of that is no doubt because I don't have a hope in hell but mainly because I just love shooting and I will continue to go to shoots where they are run with pride and offer me challenging and interesting presentations, where the person running it acknowledges you, most times things run smoothly because every shoot can have a bad day, people encourage you when they see you are struggling (the best refs are always present at Steve's grounds and the more senior ones always spur me on), when someone takes a few minutes out of their busy day to tell you you hit a bird well (thank you Steve it was at Garlands and I was almost ready to throw in the towel that day). Where you've really messed up on a stand and they give you a couple more just to try and get to grips with it. These are the things that make those of us who are not that competitive or less experienced come back. The only thing that annoys me is actually at the other end of the spectrum - when in ESP you have AA class and not all shoots have that as a separate class. They need to be separated from A class. I also for what it is worth think High Gun should not then get first in Class.

 

[Jaykaysea]

In truth I don't care about prizes or money, a part of that is no doubt because I don't have a hope in hell but mainly because I just love shooting and I will continue to go to shoots where they are run with pride and offer me challenging and interesting presentations, where the person running it acknowledges you, most times things run smoothly because every shoot can have a bad day, people encourage you when they see you are struggling (the best refs are always present at Steve's grounds and the more senior ones always spur me on), when someone takes a few minutes out of their busy day to tell you you hit a bird well (thank you Steve it was at Garlands and I was almost ready to throw in the towel that day). Where you've really messed up on a stand and they give you a couple more just to try and get to grips with it. These are the things that make those of us who are not that competitive or less experienced come back. The only thing that annoys me is actually at the other end of the spectrum - when in ESP you have AA class and not all shoots have that as a separate class. They need to be separated from A class. I also for what it is worth think High Gun should not then get first in Class.

+1 for the support and encouragement and friendly words you get from most men on the circuit

It takes a bit of nerve to walk into a gun club to shoot when you are a single female...and it is so lovely when you are made to feel welcome...and for those of you on here that I have met and for those of you that are friends that I have not yet met...thank you...you know who you are...

 

[Jaykaysea]

Gone a bit of thread...but back to the prizes...I love beating men but do think that the majority of women Don't get to shoot at that level so nice for them to have a class of their own to encourage them to keep going...doesn't have to big prize...name in lights fine...

 

[tiptop]

Man goes to have a go day with woman both enjoy the day.

Why should the woman then get a reduced cost/incentive and the man not,to continue shooting,everybody should be encouraged to continue shooting.

It costs the same for guns/cartridges no matter what gender you are don't you know.

 

[ehb102]

Man goes to have a go day with woman both enjoy the day.

Why should the woman then get a reduced cost/incentive and the man not,to continue shooting,everybody should be encouraged to continue shooting.

It costs the same for guns/cartridges no matter what gender you are don't you know.

Your lack of acknowledgement of existing male privilege suggests that for me to answer this question in detail would simply be me swallowing flamebait, and I've promised to try not to do that. 

 

[tiptop]

What are people's views on having lady's , juniors and veterans as seperate classes for prize money , we charge juniors £10 to enter and have done this now for eight years or so

I have historically worked on the principle that every one has a classification so you are shooting against people in the same average band , this way it don't dilute the class prizes too much , but I also realise that certain people in categories love to win and have their names in lights . Over to you folks , thoughts please

Steve

Steve, what i would suggest to you is have a look back at the CPSA entries at your shoots weston/westfield/garlands and see how many ladies/juniors/vets shoot at your events then make and educated decission to see if this is viable. 

 

[tiptop]

Gone a bit of thread...but back to the prizes...I love beating men but do think that the majority of women Don't get to shoot at that level so nice for them to have a class of their own to encourage them to keep going...doesn't have to big prize...name in lights fine...

Don't understand this, at what level, as there are plenty of women on here that are quite capable of being,and are, in the prize money in all classes.

It's all about what you can achieve, was there not ladies in the white gold challenge finals.

If women think they need their own class then so be it.

 

[Hamster]

Cartridges are a big part of the expense, why don't we see if shell manufacturers knock 50% off their prices for lady and junior shooters ?   :lol:  They can easily afford it afterall compared to what a lot of ground owners earn.

I can see Tiptopgun's point, never did really grasp why 22 year old me should have paid full whack and watch others pay half, in truth I was a lot worse off than them in those days but continued to pour all my money into various shoots' coffers because I did it for ME.

I will take a wager from anyone that in however many years you like there will still be a man and a woman at the top of their game who paid in to become better and better. If youngsters really want to they'll find a way to pay and why shouldn't they ? Will they share out their winnings back to those who subsidised them when they were young ?