Market research question
- Thread starter Steve Lovatt
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I'm going to add a (potentially) controversial idea to the mixer, because I believe that paying out to several places and diluting the prize fund does very little to encourage shooters of any sex or age group.
I do think it's better to just stick to the lettered classes for prize funds, however in keeping with the fact that shooting is an individual sport where there is only one winner (and i'm not referring to the ground owner here :haha: ), I think the prize fund should only pay out for first in each class only. This makes competition more worthwhile, and recognises that it takes most shooters a lot of investment in time (years) and money to start to put in competitive scores.
Colts, Juniors, Ladies etc should be included as per their lettered class (equality and all that) or incentivised in another way that doesn't interfere with the prize fund - Nicola's idea was very good.
Going home with £20 and a glass fruit bowl for a prize after winning a regional championship against a very strong turnout of accomplished shooters doesn't adequately reward the winner of the day.
I do think it's better to just stick to the lettered classes for prize funds, however in keeping with the fact that shooting is an individual sport where there is only one winner (and i'm not referring to the ground owner here :haha: ), I think the prize fund should only pay out for first in each class only. This makes competition more worthwhile, and recognises that it takes most shooters a lot of investment in time (years) and money to start to put in competitive scores.
Colts, Juniors, Ladies etc should be included as per their lettered class (equality and all that) or incentivised in another way that doesn't interfere with the prize fund - Nicola's idea was very good.
Going home with £20 and a glass fruit bowl for a prize after winning a regional championship against a very strong turnout of accomplished shooters doesn't adequately reward the winner of the day.
shootinguru
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:fie: I have heard all the CRAP about payouts! such as "all the money should go to High gun or A class because of all the work and money spent to get there"!
Some shooters will never get out of C class or B class because they don't have the ability so why should they suffer? they pay into the prize money so why should it go into any other pot? :fie:
Some shooters will never get out of C class or B class because they don't have the ability so why should they suffer? they pay into the prize money so why should it go into any other pot? :fie:
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Morning Siiiirreeeeyyyle :wink:
shootinguru
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:fie: Morning Nicola, I hope that you are up and frying your masters breakfast like a good housewife? :crazy: How is the old sod? I'll bet that he is more cantancerous than myself now that he is getting on a bit!
When are you two going to return to the "premier sport" of Parcours de Chasse? :hunter:
When are you two going to return to the "premier sport" of Parcours de Chasse? :hunter:
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Noooooooooo no no noooooooo
Sat in bed watching JFK in the UK with a lovely cuppa brought up by him indoors .....with a couple of pointer foot warmers.....
As for P de C...... With what is going on in Fitasc at the moment.......you will not be able to soon see the difference between UT, Helice, Compak or PdeC.... :laugh: so I could very well see you soon.....
P.s. ....also.....said we would not be back until they stopped the cheating.....!
Sat in bed watching JFK in the UK with a lovely cuppa brought up by him indoors .....with a couple of pointer foot warmers.....
As for P de C...... With what is going on in Fitasc at the moment.......you will not be able to soon see the difference between UT, Helice, Compak or PdeC.... :laugh: so I could very well see you soon.....
P.s. ....also.....said we would not be back until they stopped the cheating.....!
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shootinguru
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I hear what you are saying! :fie: P de Chasse is being ruined by pricks in high places who cannot shoot! :fie: thats why I like the Dutch G.P. they do it their way everyones happy. :nyam:
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It's not crap it's a perfectly valid argument. I wasn't suggesting that all the money should go to high gun or just A Class. I was suggesting that there should only be one prize money place in each registered class 1st in A, 1st in B, 1st in C as so on...
I don't think anyone "suffers" if they don't win, but by applying the socialist model of rewarding mediocrity means that in time mediocre is the best we'll ever get.
shootinguru
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So, if you are in B class and you tie for first in B and its decided by countback and you are second, the first in B gets £150.00 you get ZILCH! and your a happy shooter? :fie: Horlicks.
Well of course in your example a shoot off would be better, but if it's count back then that's the way it is because it's the rules of the game, and if that happened to me I would congratulate the winner on a job well done. This is the point though, if a shooter considers him/herself to be competitive then he/her should accept that they must shoot much better than everyone else in their class in order to win - you pay the comp fee and apply yourself on the range, take your chances etc.
It's fundamental that a prize structure for an individual sport should be designed to reward the winner. It may be tough for some to accept but second place is first loser in this game even if they did shoot well - unfortunately shooting well isn't always enough to win.
Your argument appears to reflect what some school teachers are practicing whereby the school children don't get placed on sports day so that the losers don't get their feeling hurt, and the winners get no reward or encouragement - now that is horlicks!
It's fundamental that a prize structure for an individual sport should be designed to reward the winner. It may be tough for some to accept but second place is first loser in this game even if they did shoot well - unfortunately shooting well isn't always enough to win.
Your argument appears to reflect what some school teachers are practicing whereby the school children don't get placed on sports day so that the losers don't get their feeling hurt, and the winners get no reward or encouragement - now that is horlicks!
Richard59
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Bit Darwinian that one winner takes all, so take it you also would expunge from the records all silver and bronze medals?
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CR50...SS was talking about class wins....he said quite clearly that.
It is normal for medal categories to have Gold, Silver and Bronze....but of course....the only good one....and the one we all strive for is Gold. No one remembers the silver or bronze many years hence...true story..!
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+1
Real winners are not happy with anything else....even though the PC brigade try to educate it out of people these days.
Real winners could not give a toss about who the rest of the field are....so long as the rest of the field ....is behind them.
And that my dears is a very very true story....!!
Macc Ladd
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that teachers bit don't half wind me up!!!! Do they not realise that kids are top in maths and some poor kid is bottom, we need to learn to win and to lose!! Fxxk me wrap them all up in cotton wool
shootinguru
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I have had 3 shooting grounds over 30 years, if I had paid out one prize in each class I wuld not have lasted 1 year!
Over that 30 years I introduced hundreds of sporting shooters to the game and a large amount were introduced to Fitasc Sporting, I can honestly say that I never dipped my hand into the prize money but I could name some ground owners that did!
Another thing while we are putting shooting to rights, some shooters have to win and will do anything to "win!
cheating is no problem to them nor begging targets they did not hit and so on.
The funny thing is that in my experience C class shooters very seldom cheat but in A class and AA it has been a regular thing? I could name some "Stars" as well! :fie:
Over that 30 years I introduced hundreds of sporting shooters to the game and a large amount were introduced to Fitasc Sporting, I can honestly say that I never dipped my hand into the prize money but I could name some ground owners that did!
Another thing while we are putting shooting to rights, some shooters have to win and will do anything to "win!
cheating is no problem to them nor begging targets they did not hit and so on.
The funny thing is that in my experience C class shooters very seldom cheat but in A class and AA it has been a regular thing? I could name some "Stars" as well! :fie:
I agree SG. The thing about cheaters though is that they will always come a cropper one way or another eventually.
E.g. if someone's cheating ways, or a cheating influence that acts on their behalf gets them to a major event(s) then the chances are that they will not win anyway, because sub-conciously they'll know that they don't really deserve be there, and will most probably perform as such.
Problem is that when you combine a competitive nature with the lack of organisational maturity that includes inconsistent administration, incoherent athlete development routes(funded/self funded), poorly thought out funding programs, and commercial conflicts of interests then there is bound to be the type of behaviour you should only find in a Russian beauty contest!
Until the various shooting entities align and improve the maturity level of shooting as a sport then this is how it's going to be.
E.g. if someone's cheating ways, or a cheating influence that acts on their behalf gets them to a major event(s) then the chances are that they will not win anyway, because sub-conciously they'll know that they don't really deserve be there, and will most probably perform as such.
Problem is that when you combine a competitive nature with the lack of organisational maturity that includes inconsistent administration, incoherent athlete development routes(funded/self funded), poorly thought out funding programs, and commercial conflicts of interests then there is bound to be the type of behaviour you should only find in a Russian beauty contest!
Until the various shooting entities align and improve the maturity level of shooting as a sport then this is how it's going to be.
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Brook Bank
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I don't know how Rugby compares to BB, I've never been there.
Is Rugby open minimum 5 days a week?
Does Rugby have full Planning Permission?
Does Rugby offer ESP practice simultaneously to running 100 ESK or Trap competition, followed by practice?
Is Rugby VAT Registered?
Does Rugby have a centrally heated 'clubhouse'?
After checking with the CPSA, I see they list 2 shooting grounds named Rugby - possibly 1 of them answers YES to all the questions above.......
On another note, we probably have a similar ratio of Lady shooters paying with a Private Banking card, as we do men!
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