Poor Quality Cartridges

[Salopian]

We have had lots of threads about cartridges over the years but I think the cartridge manufacturing industry has now sunk to a new low.

This past week has been horrendous.

Tuesday I witnessed a gentleman attempt to fire more than 50 Fiocchi FBlacks , every one had no powder in them, culminating in a stuck wad up the barrel , this after numerous times of lead shot trickling out of the barrel.

The week continued with various brands having hard primers and fails to fire , finally ending with Black Gold with the best display of poor manufacture I have ever seen , bulged crimps, open crimps , crushed wads, hard primers. 

It is all very well suggesting to contact the manufacturers , but they can never repair the damage done to your confidence and the loss of enjoyment experienced of having a shoot totally ruined due to their lack of care.

These are all supposed to be quality , premium cartridges, but obviously with out any or very little quality control.

Is it beyond the realms of manufacturing procedures to ensure that powder hoppers are full to enable a production run to be successful?

 

[Xaphan]

For my job I set machines for some very large production runs (plastic blow moulding) and I can say that when making many thousands or even millions of components on a production run, with a fully automated process its almost impossible to pick up every single problem and that is with a product that doesn't go through a multiple and varied process like shotgun cartridge will do. 

There are systems which can be put in place to massively mitigate the potential of faulty products leaving the production line and/or factory but it will be almost impossible to pick up on every single problem with the vast quantity they make every day. 

 

[jwpzx9r]

I would not buy Fiocchi ammunition full stop. I watched a guy have his competition ruined by bad Fiocchi golden trap. In my time on this forum I have read by many posters that you cannot win major competitions using cheap cartridges... Fiocchi cartridges are not cheap... but they are unreliable! I would rather use Decathlon cheappies at €40 per case than Fiocchi at €80 ... at the very least you know they will go bang!

For my job I set machines for some very large production runs (plastic blow moulding) and I can say that when making many thousands or even millions of components on a production run, with a fully automated process its almost impossible to pick up every single problem and that is with a product that doesn't go through a multiple and varied process like shotgun cartridge will do. 

There are systems which can be put in place to massively mitigate the potential of faulty products leaving the production line and/or factory but it will be almost impossible to pick up on every single problem with the vast quantity they make every day. 

See this is what totally scuppers the theory that expensive cartridges make the difference. When you are paying a premium you expect the cartridges to be above all that. I have shot thousands of very cheap Decathlon cartridges and never had a failure to fire. You can say what you want about pattern or variation of speed but I doubt they were ever the reason I failed to break the target! What your statement above suggests that there can be no difference in the reliability  or even performance of cartridges based purely on price.

I am not having a go at you by the way   but what you have said applies to both cheap and expensive cartridges... hence my rant about expensive/ cheap cartridges in competition... regardless of componentry they are still subject to the vagaries you highlight.

 

[westley]

For my job I set machines for some very large production runs (plastic blow moulding) and I can say that when making many thousands or even millions of components on a production run, with a fully automated process its almost impossible to pick up every single problem and that is with a product that doesn't go through a multiple and varied process like shotgun cartridge will do. 

There are systems which can be put in place to massively mitigate the potential of faulty products leaving the production line and/or factory but it will be almost impossible to pick up on every single problem with the vast quantity they make every day. 

Er, so is that a   'Plastic ********'    then ?      :huh:

 

[Santa2512]

F Blacks,     never again, 

Fiocchi,  never again,   customer support non exsistant. !

:santa:  

 

[Sian]

I must be really lucky around 52,000 Fiocchi TT1 a year give or take and a few bulgy ones is all I have to show for problems.

 

[Garwood]

I was told by all and sundry that my gun was at fault when I had a string of misfires with Fiocchi shells.

Strangely the same gun has consumed several thousand Cheddites in the last couple of years with no issues !

Manufacturers and wholesalers are not interested in problems imho.

 

[paul b]

Personally ive never had any issues with f black at all,although at some point no doubt i will be unlucky enough to get a bad batch,as with anything mass produced mistakes are bound to get through occasionally. 

 

[Aris]

I must be really lucky around 52,000 Fiocchi TT1 a year give or take and a few bulgy ones is all I have to show for problems.

You shoot 1000 a week?!

 

[Hamster]

You shoot 1000 a week?!

On a bad week. 

 

[Sian]

You shoot 1000 a week?!

There are two of us.  I only shoot between 400/700 a week on average - sometimes more if I've got the time.  With Tony we often go over 1000 if he shoots Saturday as well as Sunday.

 

[Xaphan]

I would not buy Fiocchi ammunition full stop. I watched a guy have his competition ruined by bad Fiocchi golden trap. In my time on this forum I have read by many posters that you cannot win major competitions using cheap cartridges... Fiocchi cartridges are not cheap... but they are unreliable! I would rather use Decathlon cheappies at €40 per case than Fiocchi at €80 ... at the very least you know they will go bang!

See this is what totally scuppers the theory that expensive cartridges make the difference. When you are paying a premium you expect the cartridges to be above all that. I have shot thousands of very cheap Decathlon cartridges and never had a failure to fire. You can say what you want about pattern or variation of speed but I doubt they were ever the reason I failed to break the target! What your statement above suggests that there can be no difference in the reliability  or even performance of cartridges based purely on price.

I am not having a go at you by the way   but what you have said applies to both cheap and expensive cartridges... hence my rant about expensive/ cheap cartridges in competition... regardless of componentry they are still subject to the vagaries you highlight.

basically yes but more expensive cartridges will have more expensive materials used and may go though a more stringent quality control process that will "justify" the price.

that said I'm pretty sure the manufacturing process will be virtually identical at the end.

Er, so is that a   'Plastic ********'    then ?      :huh:

yes I blow for a living  :wink:

 

[tiptop]

Quality control in manufacturing these days is near on non existent. Companies these days are more interested in compliance rather than quality, so they don't get their arse sued of them. I work in medical equipment manufacturing and it is just as bad there.

 

[Doug Pinnegar]

I've found Hull products to be better than the imported stuff from my very limited testing. Fiocchi are the only ones I've actually ever experienced manufacturing issues with (apart from some oil coated Rios).

 

[westley]

Up until my enforced shooting break, I had shot several thousand Hull  Superfast without a single problem. I have used Hull game cartridges for years and apart from the change from the 3 Crowns range, they have also been trouble free. They are one of the cleanest cartridges that I have ever used. 

 

[DKGibbs]

Been through 10k Express Power Gold mid range priced ammo with no issues and about 35k World Cup / Supreme Comp again with no issues.

Can't have confidence in a cartridge if you're not sure if it will work or not!

 

[Tron]

 

[Luke725]

Pro one all the way ....my freind shoots hull sporting 100,s not 1 of us have  had a single problem 

 

[Mike]

Up until my enforced shooting break, I had shot several thousand Hull  Superfast without a single problem. I have used Hull game cartridges for years and apart from the change from the 3 Crowns range, they have also been trouble free. They are one of the cleanest cartridges that I have ever used. 

A friend shoots fibre Superfast he had a duff one last week the wad got as far as the forcing cone, it's the first time it's happened to him.