Profit margin on Cartridges

[Salopian]

According to the CPSA website Gamebore are committing to a big sponsorship deal for the next few years.

Just Cartridges seems to be going strong and I think their prices are quite expensive + carriage is eye watering but they still keep going.

But at the end of the day a cartridge is still a relatively cheap commodity. I think the real trick is to sort out the efficient performance budget cartridge and to avoid the 'con' cartridge.

But the more that buy the Black Golds and Fitasc  ViP's , Sovereigns etc. will open the doors to profiteering.

Lead goes up and down in price, Oil goes up and down in price, cartridges get a price increase to keep abreast of component increases but whilst Lead and Oil come down the cartridges stay at the new price. How many can remember that the Hull Superfast was introduced as a budget end of run cartridge? So what is it now? A nice little earner?

 

[Masic]

Been trying carts ATM fiocci top 1 28g 7 1/2, fiocci fblue 28g 7 1/2 , trust 24g 7 1/2 and English sporter 7 1/2 28g

I like the top 1 carts as get them at £160 / 1000

Shot the rest all at the same targets at greenfeilds today and southdown the other week there is no diff in the kills at range or close between the fiocci carts or the 24g trust carts!

The fblu just had a lot more recoil! They are no more consistent than the 2 budget carts ! Pay for longer brass and a posher box!

The English sports were fine just not as smooth as the top 1s or the trust 24g

Will be sticking to using these depending on which I can get when go to the shop!

 

[Paul120]

I wonder how the volume of cartridges used affects price.

for those of us that can remember shooting in the early eighties a slab of Winchester trap 100s was £25 and the number of clay shooters shooting a high volume was about the same as today. I had a break from shooting around this time and when I returned to it again around the late 1990 2000 I was amazed that the price was about the same! this seemed to have held until 2007/8 during this period there were noticeably more people shooting a much larger volume of cartridges than My early experience where it was definitely a sport where most had to plan and some times save up for. When the price of them rocketed due to the lead issue 5-6 years ago there was a very big drop in the number of people attending clay grounds over a very short time possibly as short as 1 season due to prices going up probably as much as 40 %. most ground owners commenting on this suggesting it was the price of cartridges alone as the cost of clays etc had't risen at that time. Also I don't think that the problem of wages lagging behind the Cost of living had kicked in then either. Reports were that a lot stopped doing as much practice. the quick 50 or 100 on a wednesday etc that was the norm at the time.

I would expect that as most businesses have to show profit and in a lot of cases strive to increase them the only way is to increase margin.

That's my theory anyway.

the cost of ammo is probably better that 30 years ago, however not very good compared to just a few years ago. do we need more people shooting high volumes to drive the relative cost down again? prob good for us and the manufacturers if the volume cost model is correct. If so who starts first? Shoot more and hope prices reduce or hope that prices are reduced and more shoot. Or have other economic pressures now come into play.

one last thing that baffles me...Why can cartridges transported from half was across Europe be the same price?

 

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OMG

13

 

[Aris]

Comodity lead prices since 2000

On average, not much less than the big jump in 2006/7

Bring on steel shot at a lower cost I say! Give people a choice.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Not bad.....got one relevant to today 2013/14

 

[Aris]

Pretty steady over the past year

Basically, the commodity price of the lead in 16 shells is 60p

 

[Darkside]

Pretty steady over the past year

Basically, the commodity price of the lead in 16 shells is 60p

No, that's a little misleading, the raw material price of the lead in 16 shells may be 60p, but the lead still has to be processed... Just pointing out the obvious, not defending cost, as a primary producer in another industry, cartridge manufacturers will be the same as us, squeezed margins, needing volume sales and economy of size to make profit.

 

[jwpzx9r]

I think linking the number of cartridges shot to the price per unit is a bit  of a red herring. For example if shooters double their consumption of cartridges on an annual basis how much reduction in cost are they really going to see from the manufacturer? It is going to be nowhere near half or even or even 25 %. Add to this the assumption that manufacturers have they capacity to actually do this with out bringing in extra machinery and labour which would possibly skew the costs again. I think that the cost reflects the overall cost of raw materials and distribution costs to the manufacturers. Lets not forget the cost of transport being high as well ! Then there is the retailer adding in his wedge... every little counts... why don't the big supermarket start selling them I think the best way shooters can get a reduction in cost is bulk buying... expect a ten per cent reduction in cost per 10k purchased. Many of the bigger clubs down here do just that but it is done by the members for the members and the savings are passed on.

 

[chubby]

But in France nearly every  town has a Cartridge maker. :rabbi:

 

[ips]

Is there a point to the original question ?

Just wondered.

 

[Les53]

Is there a point to the original question ?

Just wondered.

Curiosity perhaps???

 

[stevekeat]

Is there a point to the original question ?

Just wondered.

The point is when you go and buy how ever many carts you want its nice to know that when the guy selling them says he doesn't make any money he is telling the truth. I personally don't believe you would sell something and not make a profit so I was asking the question of people in the know to attain the facts. Just asking..

 

[ips]

The point is when you go and buy how ever many carts you want its nice to know that when the guy selling them says he doesn't make any money he is telling the truth. I personally don't believe you would sell something and not make a profit so I was asking the question of people in the know to attain the facts. Just asking..

Fair enough,

for the record the bloke who says he doesn't make much if any profit on cartridges is telling you the truth.

Shops, grounds, clubs are forced to sell cartidges to us shooters as its a necessary evil. They will cover admin, transport and storage costs and that's about it.

 

[wylye]

Fair enough,

for the record the bloke who says he doesn't make much if any profit on cartridges is telling you the truth.

Shops, grounds, clubs are forced to sell cartidges to us shooters as its a necessary evil. They will cover admin, transport and storage costs and that's about it.

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with this. Cartridge sales are notoriously high volume/low margin but there is a margin and £20/£25 per thousand is not unreasonable for a retail sale from a gun shop. Buy them from a shooting ground in odd boxes and they start at £5 irrespective of brand and type. £7 is not uncommon. (to save you working it out thats £280 per thou') Not a bad margin on Top 1's or something similar, fantastic on something like Eley Firsts! 

 

[jwpzx9r]

I don't think it is unreasonable for any retail or manufacturing business to make a profit for any sake surely that is why they are in business? Is the real question being asked here " are we being ripped off " ? Personally unless the manufacturers and  retailers have got some sort of cartel going I don't think so. For me the only anomaly is the difference in cost between game and target cartridge prices it does seem odd.

And while I am up on me soap box the notion that some one only shoots four rounds of their chosen discipline per week is due to cartridge prices is guff. If cartridge prices suddenly halved in price most would either shoot a more expensive one because they could afford to or say great my shooting is costing less, I really doubt they would suddenly start shooting twice as much as before. Shooting is and as far as I can tell always has been an expensive pastime deal with it and stop whining  

 

[ips]

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with this. Cartridge sales are notoriously high volume/low margin but there is a margin and £20/£25 per thousand is not unreasonable for a retail sale from a gun shop. Buy them from a shooting ground in odd boxes and they start at £5 irrespective of brand and type. £7 is not uncommon. (to save you working it out thats £280 per thou') Not a bad margin on Top 1's or something similar, fantastic on something like Eley Firsts!

I thought we were talking per k. Obviously more will be made on individual boxes bit like when I was a kid you could buy a single cig from some local shops we called them "seps" they were about 5p when a pack of 20 was about 50p.

anyway 20 quid profit on 1k is approx 10% ish, hardly high end mark up.

 

[Aris]

No, that's a little misleading, the raw material price of the lead in 16 shells may be 60p, but the lead still has to be processed... Just pointing out the obvious, not defending cost, as a primary producer in another industry, cartridge manufacturers will be the same as us, squeezed margins, needing volume sales and economy of size to make profit.

Indeed this is why I said the commodity price of the lead in your shells is 60p :yes:

 

[stevekeat]

I don't think it is unreasonable for any retail or manufacturing business to make a profit for any sake surely that is why they are in business? Is the real question being asked here " are we being ripped off " ? Personally unless the manufacturers and  retailers have got some sort of cartel going I don't think so. For me the only anomaly is the difference in cost between game and target cartridge prices it does seem odd.

And while I am up on me soap box the notion that some one only shoots four rounds of their chosen discipline per week is due to cartridge prices is guff. If cartridge prices suddenly halved in price most would either shoot a more expensive one because they could afford to or say great my shooting is costing less, I really doubt they would suddenly start shooting twice as much as before. Shooting is and as far as I can tell always has been an expensive pastime deal with it and stop whining

No. The question was and still is the same, I buy the best cartridges I can afford and am comfortable using I don't for one second think we are being ripped off. The question arose while I was in a shop and hearing the owner say he wasn't making money on cartridges! I just don't think it was truthful, if it was then it proves that some people are just not suited to running businesses.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Maybe he was not though! Lets be honest if you only sell x number per week and you have laid out y £'s on you stock  and x is small and y is big then it will be difficult to make profit, it depends on through put. In fairness to the shop keeper though ask this question if you have to buy in say 10k of cartridges to make it worth while in terms of transport costs which costs you say £1400 but it takes you ages to sell them you will struggle but a gunshop without cartridges ??? The same parallels can be drawn about so many high street shops going out of business in many cases because some other outlet selling only specialised items of the genre, in the case of shooting just cartridges being an example, they only it would appear sell cartridges are they making a profit most obviously.. they are only juggling one ball the gunshop on the other hand ?