Reasons for missing

[Freddypip]

Perhaps a topic for another thread but I agree that being in the right head space is very important.

I've not quite worked out where mine is yet and whether a few pre-shot routines are a solution or whether I need to find an overall zen !!!

 

[bordergun]

Knowledge and what jonz said is 99.9% of the answer.

 

[Tech Admin]

Thread closed for insult cleaning. After cleaned it may be re-opened.

 

[Tech Admin]

I've deleted about 36 post that were insult trading or off topic and just trying to get the two fussing at each other to do it more.
I'm leaving this closed, for at least over night and will consider opening it tomorrow.

 

[Tech Admin]

Okay, let's reset the outlook for this thread and discuss why YOU or others miss the target.

If the insult /reply/ insult reply happens again, then the thread will be closed and stay closed.

 

[bordergun]

There are obviously myriads of answers and we can blame any of them. But the correct answer will always be (as jonz also said, post #73) because we didn't put the shot pattern into the anticipated flight path of the target.

 

[SBL]

100% of the time when i shoot in the wrong place, I miss.
If i hit the first 4 and miss the 5th, it’s still because i shot in the wrong place. The lead hasnt changed, i havent forgot the lead. It can be inconsistency in hold point, maybe i stopped just before shooting, complacency etc. All things that could fairly be described as method issues, nothing to do with not knowing the lead.

 

[bordergun]

SBL I agree. But the ultimate outcome of the miss was that you put your pattern in the wrong place. The list of reasons for that is endless and I would think absolutely impossible to answer on here. I would think the only way you could answer that conclusively was if there was a competent coach (who knew the lead requirement you needed) looking over your shoulder as you pulled the trigger? Then he could tell you conclusively if you stopped/slowed the gun, or glanced momentarily at the pretty lady on the next station?

 

[SBL]

I would say that there are different ways and means but ultimately, a good coach watching you shoot and identifying what you did wrong is the ideal. As we already agreed, I know the lead. It’s the inconsistency in my method/process that needs identifying.

 

[bordergun]

SBL Once again I agree. And I know there are some that would insist that the "new" shooting methods are swing through and pull-away but both those methods have residual gun speed and even an experienced coach would struggle to see the exact lead as you trigger the shot because of that. 1/2 inch of difference in muzzle movement shot-to-shot translates into several feet out there at the target. That's why all the top shots (over time) eventually develop muzzle and trigger "patience" and they use all the methods.

 

[Daz W]

SBL Once again I agree. And I know there are some that would insist that the "new" shooting methods are swing through and pull-away but both those methods have residual gun speed and even an experienced coach would struggle to see the exact lead as you trigger the shot because of that. 1/2 inch of difference in muzzle movement shot-to-shot translates into several feet out there at the target. That's why all the top shots (over time) eventually develop muzzle and trigger "patience" and they use all the methods.

Swing through is hardly new. Game shooters have been doing it since day 1. You can't always shoot maintained or pull away if you don't know when and where the target is coming from.
We all teach pull away first on a SC layout, because teaches target line and speed. From that you can determine lead. Easy to see if the student is off line, or applying incorrect lead. If you teach maintained lead, the student is guessing the target line, which allows missing not only infront or behind, but also above and below.
Swing through is also fairly straightforward to teach, as most newbies get the hold point wrong, and the clay beats the gun by a mile, resulting in a massive gun speed and a miss infront, even for the correct percieved lead. Again the target line is apparent, and not guesswork as in ML.
BH has done a really good video of the pros and cons of each method, and when they are applied best. Some will still have their preferred methods on targets, but I've found his methodology works for me. If it needs more than 2-3 feet is getting pull away, less than that it's swing through. If I need to shoot it fast, or I've run out of other ideas then ML.

 

[Bavarian]

This is 100% correct. The correct line is also crucial.

 

[bordergun]

Daz W How does "teaching the line and speed" make sure that the guy pulling the trigger applies the correct lead?

 

[Daz W]

Daz W How does "teaching the line and speed" determine the lead?

Its fairly simple. The faster it's going the more lead it requires. The line tells you in which direction.

 

[bordergun]

So, does your coach explain how much you need on each target, or does he leave it for you to figure out over time?

 

[Dave_3]

Daz W How does "teaching the line and speed" make sure that the guy pulling the trigger applies the correct lead?

When I asked that question he said that pulling ahead on a fast target means you're pulling ahead with a faster barrel and get more automatic lead

 

[PeeJay]

Swing through is hardly new. Game shooters have been doing it since day 1. You can't always shoot maintained or pull away if you don't know when and where the target is coming from.
We all teach pull away first on a SC layout, because teaches target line and speed. From that you can determine lead. Easy to see if the student is off line, or applying incorrect lead. If you teach maintained lead, the student is guessing the target line, which allows missing not only infront or behind, but also above and below.
Swing through is also fairly straightforward to teach, as most newbies get the hold point wrong, and the clay beats the gun by a mile, resulting in a massive gun speed and a miss infront, even for the correct percieved lead. Again the target line is apparent, and not guesswork as in ML.
BH has done a really good video of the pros and cons of each method, and when they are applied best. Some will still have their preferred methods on targets, but I've found his methodology works for me. If it needs more than 2-3 feet is getting pull away, less than that it's swing through. If I need to shoot it fast, or I've run out of other ideas then ML.

Is there a link to this video please. Or a description of where I could find it.

 

[bordergun]

Dave 3 But how far do you pull ahead? 1 foot, 2 feet, 3 feet or more? Did he tell you that?

 

[Stiggers]

So I’ve had a thread deleted - WTAF?

 

[bordergun]

Dave 3 But how far do you pull ahead? Would that be 1 foot, 2 feet, 3 feet or more? Did he tell you that?