target angle

[** Pending Removal **]

See you at Southern Counties.

Is it still going then :wink:

 

[PhilR]

Is it still going then :wink:

Must be for April with three trap selection shoots in four weekends :fie:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Must be for April with three trap selection shoots in four weekends :fie:

Madness....and very expensive for those from Midlands upwards..!!

 

[ips]

I'm pretty sure that you can't just add the angles like that. The actual angle you swing the gun through is going to depend on how far out the clay is from the trap house before you hit it.

The easiest way to explain why the angle would change with distance is to use peg 3 as an example. If a clay comes out of the trap house at 32.5deg to the right and you hit it 10m out (unlikely but we can all dream) you can imagine a right angle with the hypotenuse of the triangle being the 10m between the trap and the clay. Sine 32.5 * 10 gives you the offset to the right from the centreline of the trap house to the clay (5.37m), whilst cosine 3.25*10 gives you the distance the clay is out from the trap house if measured perpendicular to the front face of the trap. (8.43m). If you are standing 15m directly behind the trap, then the right angled triangle between you and the clay would have an 'opposite' side of 5.37m (as it is the same offset as from the trap) and an 'adjacent' side of 15m + 8.43m = 23.43m. Inverse Tan 5.37/23.43 would mean the gun would need to point at an angle of 12.9 deg to the right to hit the clay.

If we then look at the situation with the clay 20m out, the 'opposite' increases to 10.74m and the 'adjacent' increases to 31.86m. Inverse Tan 10.74/31.86 gives an angle of 18.63 degrees. Ergo the further out the clay gets the bigger the angle you need to swing the gun through.

If someone wants to give me a typical estimate of how far the clay is out of the trap when its hit I can use the above method (plus the sine and cosine rules) to work out the max angles to the left and right from pegs 1 and 2 (you'd then justneed to reverse them for pegs 4 and 5).

PS. I'm better at trigonometry than shooting.

Too deep for me

 

[Bebo]

It's not deep, just relatively simple maths using SOHCAHTOA and Pythagoras theorem on right angled triangles. 

 

[Dog Tyred]

Bebo

Disagree 100%

The target angle (as defined by governing bodies anyway) is the angle the target leaves the trap house relative to a perpendicular line bisecting the trap house and peg three (or each shooting position for OT) and has absolutely nothing to do with the targets position relative to the shooter when it is hit!

If I stand on peg 3 and the max angle target is released I am shooting at a 32.5 degree target (ignoring all possible set up tolerances here). If I then move 6 metres to the left and mount the gun at the central point on the trap house my viewing angle has added 21 degrees to the original 0 degree target line. If the same 32.5 degree LH target is released then I am now viewing a target traversing at 53 degree relative to my mount point (0 degrees target line).

DT

Edited for typos

 

[Les53]

Bebo

Disagree 100%

The target angle (as defined by governing bodies anyway) is the angle the target leaves the trap house relative to a perpendicular line bisecting the trap house and peg three (or each shooting position for OT) and has absolutely nothing to do with the targets position when it is hit!

If I stand on peg 3 and the max angle target is released I am shooting at a 32.5 degree target (ignoring all possible set tolerances here). If I then move 6 metres to the left and mount the gun at the point on the trap house my viewing angle has added 21 degrees to the original 0 degree target line. If the he same 32.5 degree target is released then I am now viewing a target traversing at 53 degree relative to my mount point.

DT

Greg I reckon you are right mate! But I'm a little to pissed to actually sit and work it out. Well done mate!

 

[jwpzx9r]

DT think I agree with you. I was thinking along the lines of what Bebo said when I was doing my sums. I just did not know if you could just add the two angles to get the resultant an assume that is what you would see.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

This is all really interesting (yawn)......just shoot the clay....don't think it to death...!!

Very very bored now....all the info is being guessed at....it will not help your shooting at all.....and it all changes immediately if you have the wrong foot position.

You would be better talking about the different places where you put your feet in OT and UT on the different pegs.....in order to maximise your chance of hitting the target :wink:

 

[ips]

It's not deep, just relatively simple maths using SOHCAHTOA and Pythagoras theorem on right angled triangles.

Well obviously

 

[Bebo]

Dog Tyred

Correct, the angle from the trap house is 32.5 degrees maximum and the angle would be unchanged from the position of the shooter if you were standing on the trap house or if you were standing in a position that was 32.5 degrees to the left of the trap house at any distance back from it. However, as soon as you change the angle of the shooter relative to the line that the clay is flying out at you will end up with a variable angle based on the distance the clay is from the trap.  I'll draw it out to scale and post it to show why.

You can't just add angles, unless you are taking them all from the same point.  Geometry doesn't work like that.

 

[Dog Tyred]

This is all crap......just shoot the clay....don't think it to death...!!

Very very bored now....all the info is being guessed at....it will not help your shooting at all.....and it all changes immediately if you have the wrong foot position.

You would be better talking about the different places where you put your feet in OT and UT on the different pegs.....in order to maximise your chance of hitting the target :wink:

Which is the question I raised back in post 17 but no one has yet answered.

On peg 1 should you actually set your stance more towards the centre of the possible target angle (left of the trap house) but mount your gun at the target crossover point i.e right of where you stance is actually pointing in the same way that a sporting shooter would set his/her stance to where he/she expects to shoot the target but with the gun hold at the point where they expect to pick up the target? Not quite the same for trap as the target can go either direction so if you do get a RH target you are already part way through your possible gun movement to the right when you see the target. Hope that's clear :ermm:

DT

 

[jwpzx9r]

I am not wanting to burst the whole what is more difficult back into flow again but the thing about ABT is you may not get such a target while on that peg in your entire round... on the other hand you could get five! I ask you what sort of game is that when you could, probably will, get an entirely different set of targets to your fellow shooters and yet try to compare scores in a competition when the bloke next pad down got five rakers and you got five straight aways ? It is.... well...  daft you are comparing apples and oranges... pineapples and mangos, kiwi's and kumquats  

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Dog Tyred

Correct, the angle from the trap house is 32.5 degrees maximum and the angle would be unchanged from the position of the shooter if you were standing on the trap house or if you were standing in a position that was 32.5 degrees to the left of the trap house at any distance back from it. However, as soon as you change the angle of the shooter relative to the line that the clay is flying out at you will end up with a variable angle based on the distance the clay is from the trap. I'll draw it out to scale and post it to show why.

You can't just add angles, unless you are taking them all from the same point. Geometry doesn't work like that.

You had better draw infinite examples then because you have to accommodate the vary many choices of shooters foot positions on each peg. (And how the foot position changes the angle of the body relative to where you are looking for the exit of the clay ...and different relative to the angle set for the clay) and how those positions change on a windy day when some shooters set up deliberately different in order to accommodate for the wind)).Good luck...that should take you the rest of the week :wink:

 

[Bebo]

Sod it, I'll just go out and shoot some sporting instead.

 

[ips]

The question has been answered succinctly by 40up and then very nicely indeed by DT (even I could understand the mathematics) so thank you both.

As for all this other stuff, its just not neccasary to take all that into account as the original question was quite simple.

Cheers 40up & DT

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Sod it, I'll just go out and shoot some sporting instead.

Ok. Now I get it (you are not a trap shooter). I understand the way you have done your theory. But there is much more to perceived angles than just working it out on paper from one position on each stand as if you were square on. It does not really work like that.

 

[ips]

I am not wanting to burst the whole what is more difficult back into flow again but the thing about ABT is you may not get such a target while on that peg in your entire round... on the other hand you could get five! I ask you what sort of game is that when you could, probably will, get an entirely different set of targets to your fellow shooters and yet try to compare scores in a competition when the bloke next pad down got five rakers and you got five straight aways ? It is.... well...  daft you are comparing apples and oranges... pineapples and mangos, kiwi's and kumquats

Exactly John, that my friend is ABT.

PS I am usually the bloke who gets the kumquats and not the apples, oh how I wish I had not had as mant kumquats on my last line on sunday even a few ruddy oranges would have been welcome I mean you have to give a bloke a fighting chance.

Bloody kumquats

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I seem to have hit a period of always getting the low sharp right and the high sharp right......and I have even tried holding longer thinking the cam will have changed direction (fatal distraction then to the game)......but hey.....if I keep getting my bogey bird....I might get used to it.......eventuality. (It is the same bogey in UT as well) #crisisshooter.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Which is the question I raised back in post 17 but no one has yet answered.

On peg 1 should you actually set your stance more towards the centre of the possible target angle (left of the trap house) but mount your gun at the target crossover point i.e right of where you stance is actually pointing in the same way that a sporting shooter would set his/her stance to where he/she expects to shoot the target but with the gun hold at the point where they expect to pick up the target? Not quite the same for trap as the target can go either direction so if you do get a RH target you are already part way through your possible swing to the right when you see the target. Hope that's clear ?

DT

DT I have said it before and will say it again. Stance and gun holds may be very important to some but to others it is theoretical mush. I week in week out watch the same guys down here not using gun holds and standing like the have some sort of deformation of their body blasting targets into gravel with monotonous regularity.

Two weeks back I was shooting and a well meaning coach who scores 23 or more every round, and I do mean every round! came over and told me not to use gun holds...pas bon pour le tir monsieur. His theory you are simply making another target more difficult to make the one you dislike easier. These gun holds and stance positions are good aids for teaching people who don't know what they are doing or need help because they cannot work it out for themselves. I have yet to meet someone on a stand down here that has actually had a proper lesson from a coach the are all self taught, I am not saying this is right and proper what I will say is that the notion that to shoot successfully requires you have to adopt some sort of format used universally is guff! I regularly manage to miss using my own self taught format