The AGM

[Salopian]

ehb,

 Very well said, and yes I can see your point very well, as you know I am well aware of your poor experiences of CPSA. You are not alone and this is why I and others are not happy with the way things are being done. Hopefully things will change for the better. I agree that neither you or I have personally  been severely financially debited, but collectively, we the membership have endured years of financial waste with seemingly no end to it, which can only point to lax management and a cavalier approach to financial management.

As you clearly stated you have received nothing good from your membership of the CPSA and unfortunately this is the experience of many, how frustrating for the recruitment staff to work diligently increasing the membership only to see all their efforts wasted by members not renewing their subscriptions. Sadly I think it can be said that the vast majority of clay shooters do not and never will need the CPSA.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I did read the second part of your post. I read all your post and thought it was very sensible, up until you made the suggestion that I had personally been deprived of thousands of pounds. That's not how most people perceive the issue. I pay £X, I get Y insurance and Z benefits. I only joined for the Y insurance so I can always go and join something like BASC next year. I shot one registered shoot, and didn't find it much fun. I employ CPSA coaches and they aren't much fun either. I'm not good enough to compete so most of the CPSA's work has no relevance for me. 

Having spent lots of time working in local government, universities and charities as well as volunteer projects  I know that the price of continuation and sustainability is either money or time. In any situation run by consensus the cost of both is always much greater than if you had one person working alone. It's very easy to point out decisions as being "bad" but most things that I've heard called a waste are a difference of opinion or, more likely, the person saying it's a "waste" is making a judgement of a choice that someone else has made. There may be a large legal bill that could have been avoided, but if I had been chairman then I'd have pulled that as a CYA manoeuvre.  And hopefully been voted out next AGM because I obviously didn't have the interpersonal skills to avoid such situations, but that's by the by.

I've rather been put off CPSA politics. Some of these posts are coming across as aggressive and inflexible. People may well be right, but it's like hearing a 1970s trade union. The lack of consideration of any other point of view is really off-putting. Worse, it's like being back at the Federation of Small Businesses. I don't want to get involved in the politics of a hierarchical organisation which doesn't have a culture of listening and innovation. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, been the mug. 

What you have said is true for most members.

But when you needed help you were given the support very quickly by someone who was bothered about your experience. This is the membership looking after the membership....without asking for anything back. :smile:

 

[ehb102]

What you have said is true for most members.

But when you needed help you were given the support very quickly by someone who was bothered about your experience. This is the membership looking after the membership....without asking for anything back. :smile:

The membership might look after the membership, but the organisation itself failed. For anyone who missed out on earlier threads I had a brush with a CPSA registered coach who told a complete beginner that they should never bother shooting again. People here took an interest and my regional director, Colin, kicked some tables at head office to get the CEO to respond to me. What actually happened was that we established the following:

(1) CPSA trained coaches are not held to any standard once they are trained. No continuing professional development, no standards of behaviour.

(2) The CPSA organisation itself has no sanction or authority over coaches. There is not even a process for getting a coach removed from the website listing. 

(3) The proposed action by the chairman was that they could talk to the offending coach. 

Anyone who's ever worked in any organisation knows that number 3 is the best way to open up a nasty he-said-she-said situation between the two parties. Having found that the head of the CPSA had no authority over a person representing the organisation, or at least using the organisation's brand, nor was there any violation of an agreed standard, I reasoned it best to chalk this one up to experience. It occurs to me now that the last chairman wasn't the best at conflict resolution. Nevertheless, I was shocked by the lack of good practice. There wasn't any mention from the chairman of "we must make sure this doesn't happen again." That would have impressed me, even if such measures didn't appear for several years. Instead, nothing more happened because the organisational infrastructure did not exist to facilitate it and there was no organisational culture of constant improvement. 

So yes, the CPSA is full of lovely individuals. I have no argument with that, although they all seem to have arguments with each other. Maybe those individuals can bring about organisational change. Great good luck to you. 

 

[** Pending Removal **]

We are trying....and that is why straight away i gave you the contact to speak directly to the Director from your area :smile:

 

[Westward]

We are working to safe guard the sport....that is why we got our ass out of bed on Saturday to go to the Agm ...snow and all.

As for the nutters....there are certainly plenty of those as well.

Okay I'm willing to play nicely and ask a serious question. When you refer to 'working to safeguard the sport', from whom or what does the sport need safeguarding? Is there a conspiracy at HQ to skewer the membership? The reason I ask is because I didn't expect that every decision the CPSA made would need to be scrutinised in so much detail. I honestly think the members would be far more supportive if were clear that there was more to all this than some little details in the wording of the Articles.

So if you can find someone who i) Understands the issues thoroughly & ii) Can write a reasonably cogent description in passable English, it would certainly help me to understand what all the fuss is about.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Okay I'm willing to play nicely and ask a serious question. When you refer to 'working to safeguard the sport', from whom or what does the sport need safeguarding? Is there a conspiracy at HQ to skewer the membership? The reason I ask is because I didn't expect that every decision the CPSA made would need to be scrutinised in so much detail. I honestly think the members would be far more supportive if were clear that there was more to all this than some little details in the wording of the Articles.

So if you can find someone who i) Understands the issues thoroughly & ii) Can write a reasonably cogent description in passable English, it would certainly help me to understand what all the fuss is about.

Westward......I really do not know why you keep talking to or about me.....I decided that i would break my friendly rule for once and say....that i really do not care what you think or what you want to know anymore....i do not think that you can understand English....or at least read it....if you did the info is all out there. I have no interest in spoon feeding you....I am sorry if you do not like the answer but ...hey I do not have to talk to you.

Several people have told me to look at your cpsa scores.....I did.....so i will leave you to your own devices now.....or you could speak to Wylye...I think you two might just get on......no promises though :smile:

As to the others on here .....the sport needs protection against many things internal and external.....and if people actually bothered about their sport and read all the available information....they would know and not need to ask daft questions.

 

[Deleted member 753]

EHB - That is a real shame as you obviously have a lot of value to contribute.

Hopefully with the review of the articles and the changes that will be implemented over the next 6 months, it will leave us with an association that engages far more with the membership and is much more open, honest with full visibility of key decisions.

Don't give up on getting involved because of what you have read on here - forums do not reflect the majority of volunteers and contributors that give up their time and effort to make our sport more enjoyable. They are the ones that really need our support.

At last an honest straight forward comment to this tangled web of bitterness. Some people should move on and support the CPSA with a positive and constructive approach. Whatever your past issues with the CPSA and it's board is old hat, leave it behind, let the grudge go and move on, this forum is not a one person roadshow!

 

[RobertBeard]

I think the issues have been expressed over and over again but if you missed them this is how I see it:-

The current directors have made a number of mistakes and as a result, over a number of years, have incurred legal and compensation costs that perhaps need not have been incurred

They tried to introduce a new form of proxy to reduce the rights of members and it has been said by some of them evidently that they don't see why we should have a proxy vote

Whilst not apparently illegally they intimidated a candidate for chairman last year such that he did not attend the AGM and because of that we have been deprived of the candidate who held most votes for chairman

The current chairman has reputedly changed from being in favour of open government and keeping the membership informed to one who is not prepared to answer some of the difficult questions

Whilst they might do all they do with the best intentions they don't seem to want to be accountable to the members which is not on in my book

That's my take on it if it helps

Originally posted on my iPad which stripped out all the spacing

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Sleepy wake up...... this forum has several contributors who comment all the time (or do you want to silence people :smile: )

Just remind me which county or region committee do you give up hours and hours of time on. How do you help the sport or the CPSA???????

Just because bits are broke do not put people down who are trying to fix it.

Wonder if the main site of the CPSA has still got the 'complaint' on it as the front door...rather than the Gold for Amber??

Maybe you do not think that worthy of a comment.....but i am many others do......

Don't think that comments on a website will stop me and others posting what should be happening in our sport.

Off now to check you out to see who i am talking too....in a sport sense :smile:

 

[Deleted member 753]

Nicola, I shoot Sporting, like the people I shoot with, enjoy their company and like the chat that is created on this site about the weekly events, shoots and laughs!

What I don't want to see every night is the Nicola show! You have your opinion and you are entitled to that.

Chill out, shoot some sporting and let the past go!

I will now go back to sleep then, after watching one more episode of Fawlty Towers.

Bye Bye

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Nicola, I shoot Sporting, like the people I shoot with, enjoy their company and like the chat that is created on this site about the weekly events, shoots and laughs!

What I don't want to see every night is the Nicola show! You have your opinion and you are entitled to that.

Chill out, shoot some sporting and let the past go!

I will now go back to sleep then, after watching one more episode of Fawlty Towers.

Bye Bye

Press the ducking ignore button then...it is your choice to read what you want....you do know that there is an ignore button.......I use it a lot.

There is no Nicola show.....i like everyone on here use the forum to communicate and discuss various things....

Interesting that you are wanting to censor me......that is a new take on a forum..... :smile:

PRESS IGNORE......you will feel much better then....and i will not have to reply to another attack when trying to discuss a serious subject. 

It is really simple to operate and you only have to do it once.

hahahahaha don't blame me that there is a lot to discuss.........try the topic of why the CPSA has a negative topic on its home page rather than the great win in an adult class of one of our 15yr old shooters who just won gold........or do you like the arrogance stand that it does not warrant front page news. hahahhaa

 

[Deleted member 753]

Excellent news with Amber, seen her at 4C's many a time.

Will be great to get some new blood in the sport and some fresh ideas. Move on.

I don't want to press the ignore button Nicola, in case it pauses Fawlty Towers!

But you carry on your Crusade.

Got to go now, the Rabbit has just started to boil in the pan.

Tea Time.

 

[Chard]

Several people have told me to look at your cpsa scores.....I did.....so i will leave you to your own devices now.....

Cheap shot......

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Cheap shot......

Do I care....after what has been said at me.......half the time I have to reply with one hand behind my back ....compared to what I would say face to face....

Do grow up people..

 

[Hamster]

Errrr, talking of scores having any direct correlation to sense spoken...................... :lol:   :clapping:  ..................helllllo.

 

[Chard]

half the time I have to reply with one hand behind my back ....compared to what I would say face to face....

Why is that? In case someone wheels out a threat of litigation?

 

[Westward]

Westward......I really do not know why you keep talking to or about me.....I decided that i would break my friendly rule for once and say....that i really do not care what you think or what you want to know anymore....i do not think that you can understand English....or at least read it....if you did the info is all out there. I have no interest in spoon feeding you....I am sorry if you do not like the answer but ...hey I do not have to talk to you.

Several people have told me to look at your cpsa scores.....I did.....so i will leave you to your own devices now.....or you could speak to Wylye...I think you two might just get on......no promises though :smile:

As to the others on here .....the sport needs protection against many things internal and external.....and if people actually bothered about their sport and read all the available information....they would know and not need to ask daft questions.

Nice! Really nice!

Well no one can say I didn't try to get along with you.

You are single handedly turning this once pleasant and friendly forum into something resembling the sh*thole that it was designed to avoid becoming.

What the hell have my CPSA scores got to do with you or anyone else? Is it the case in your world that only an AAA is entitled to exist or have a view. Apart from being a sanctimonious gobsh*te just who do you think you are?

For God's sake do us all a favour and go off on another of your mega sulks and let the forum resume being about something other than you.

 

[Chard]

 

[Deleted member 753]

Cheap shot......

Well said Chard.

How's that for a motivational comment from the Chosen one!

I don't think we will be on the Christmas card list this year buddy.

To get personal about someone because of their shooting ability is below the belt.

Westward is a genuine bloke who also scores on some Registered events. Gives his time to the sport.

No need to get personal, as the past may come to haunt you!

Regards from the Hollow, the Horseman is coming!

 

[Chard]

Westward doesn't give himself an easy ride either. They're not what I would call easy shoots...