Time to make some changes to our Team selection

[Paul120]

Simple, increase CPSA subs by £15 and ask all life members to pay £50 for next 5 years and that would raise £1.65M+ based on 22,000 members.

Or apply a £1 sub at every shoot to support teams (yes I know collecting this way may be difficult).

You reduce the subs down if corporate sponsorship is received.

unfortunately I think upping the fees you would lose an awful lot of members.
At our local non registered ground on Sunday a guy who spends most of his time in the states was saying how much more the local authoritys support thier local grounds as they attract people to the area and the community benefit from the additional business.

Authority s over here just seem to deny any benefit.

Shame as the closing of SC will harm a few business that its supported over the years. .

Getting back to the point, the discussion turned to why most people at the ground arn't CPSA members.

Cost of membership and the fact that the recreational/average member seem to be ignored.

Putting costs up for what would be perceived as the elite woud be about as welcome as a fart in a space suit.

Another thought; if you're proving yourself good enough you shoot for you country, getting good results or showing potential. Why not use the opportunity to approach local businesses to sponsor you.

plenty do this with success. May take effort but could prove fruitful..just a thought.

 

[maddmatt]

Sponsorship is all about return on investment, ie, if I sponsor you, what do I get? Usually the sponsor would get their company or brand promoted at events, maybe it is televised or articles are written in magazines with high readership numbers. Sadly this is quite difficult to do in shooting, firstly its not televised to a wide enough audience, the only other press coverage is in niche magazines with relatively low readership numbers and at best your company will only be seen by a few hundred people when you shoot. So its hardly worth the effort on the sponsors part.

In this Country very few shooters get financial sponsorship, which is what they need. Sponsored or discounted shells, glasses and skeet vests are all most of them get. So, in order to move it forward you have to professionalise the sport, split the CPSA administration function, side A looks after the grass roots shooter, encourages a broader membership to include people who only shoot straw balers and build the talent pool, side B looks after competitive shooters, academies, improvement programs and introducing higher standards to create a professional sport.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

It is all about professionalism if you want to pull big money in. Also getting the stories on multi media sites.....which is why I found it bizarre that the photographer...who took a stand at the WESP was told (by a Cpsa 'official) he was not allowed to film the final.

Surely the more video footage going on the Internet the better...!

 

[Darkside]

Professionalise sporting clay shooting to what end? To beat a funded Americam team at 'World Sporting'? The 'non professionalised' England team just did that! To win home internationals against Wales, Scotland, Ireland, N Ireland and Jersey? Not a huge problem, (they will even let the one of the best Welsh sporting shots shoot for England) look at past results!!! The 'top three' (who don't (apart from Richard) shoot for the England team) are virtually professionals within the sport as it is, they are at least 'porfessinal standard'. It's a game/hobby/sport at the end of the day, some of the lucky ones with increadable talent and a little good fortune will allways make a loving out of the sport, some will get a little help with costs from 'sponsors'...the othe 95+% will be compleatly self funded like any other sport/hobby/game!!!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

To clarify my post in a clearer way....I am talking about the much bigger picture....clay target shooting....all disciplines.

Hope that helps.

 

[Darkside]

I wasn't replying to your post...

 

[Salopian]

James, after I had eaten my porridge and translated your post, you did talk a lot of sense.

But like others on this thread, have misunderstood my intentions.

I am not talking about 'professional' shots making a living out of clayshooting,  I do not know of one in Gt.Britain including George & Richard.

I am talking about asking people like George, Richard, Cheryl and others who are plainly good enough to represent their country to do so.

Then we as an association, or membership of the sport find ways and means to correctly fund those teams with the costs incurred to represent your country.

USA have a dress code where they are supplied with different attire, they are given an itinerary of what they will wear each day, a dress code, they have travel costs paid, hotels, transport, ammunition etc.

We need to do the same, have corporate identity.

If you look hard and long at what we do, at the moment we do nearly everything wrong. Why are selection shoots so expensive? How much of the entry fee actually goes to funding Team England? I have yet to receive a sensible answer as to why Wales, Scotland, & Northern Ireland clayshooters get lottery funding and England do not?

We need an energetic Commercial Manager vigorously working to procure sponsorship for the CPSA or more importantly the Clay Shooting Community, not the executive to squander on computers, and legal costs.

It would be interesting to see if anyone has ever contacted Specsavers, Phone4U, Fosters, Barbour, Musto, RedBull etc. Companies who spend a fortune on ALL forms of advertising.

Yes some may say that Guns and Alcohol shouldn't mix, but Fosters is a rebellious company who would possibly advertise and encourage shooting.

We just need to re-brand ourselves and energise and enthuse.

 

[maddmatt]

Good God, can you imagine what Golf would be like if it was still an amateur sport? James do you think it should remain as a grass root straw bale amateur sport? I think that would be a disaster for the sport as a whole, one area that would benefit from it being made professional is protecting the sport in general from Anti's, stupid MP's who think all gun owners are criminals and the general public who think all shooters are practicing armed robbers. So its not just about winning teams, and we only beat the yanks by 1 target this time and that was probably due to the use of driven targets (something you do not see in the States).

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I wasn't replying to your post...

I was not replying to yours...otherwise I would have put it in 'quotes'

 

[Darkside]

Just eaten some toast and marmalade, before I translate your post nthequiet:

I understood your post, the one at the start of the thread and agree with it. very often it's not the strongest team that represents thier country, it's the ones who;

1. Can afford the time/money and finished highest in the rankings to go represent their country

2.Can afford the time/money to go represent their country and finished highest behind the ones who can't afford the time and money to repsresent their country

3. The ones who are hungry enough to sacrafice lots of other things so they can afford the time/money to represent their country and finish high enough in the rankings to do so.

4. The ones who only get the chance because enough of the ones who qualified in front of them (or would have if they had shot the qualifier shoots) don't have the time/money/willingness to shoot for the team.

My post was in responce to Matt.

Last years Scottish team was great, lots of new caps, no Prima Donna's or 'egos' clashing (as I'd been told to expect) the atmosphere was great and I think everyone really enjoyed the weekend. The little funding we had (which was gladly recived and I was very thankful for)  was raised by the hard work of the team manager, at qualifier shoots, running raffles.

The only comment I will make about team England is, at times they looked like the England football team looks like some times, a collection of star players, who don't seem to all like or want to like each other or even want to be around each other, but play on the same team. Maybe it's just the intensity of compitition, but thats how it looked from the outside.

 

[Darkside]

Good God, can you imagine what Golf would be like if it was still an amateur sport? James do you think it should remain as a grass root straw bale amateur sport? I think that would be a disaster for the sport as a whole, one area that would benefit from it being made professional is protecting the sport in general from Anti's, stupid MP's who think all gun owners are criminals and the general public who think all shooters are practicing armed robbers. So its not just about winning teams, and we only beat the yanks by 1 target this time and that was probably due to the use of driven targets (something you do not see in the States).

So, are saying that clay pigeon shooting is nothing more than a "grass root straw bale amateur sport" at the moment???

 

[Darkside]

p.s. Matt, golf is the largest participant sport in the world!!! It's also very tv friendly, marketable, socialy accepatable and accessable to any/every social/financial demographic in the developed world...you don't even need a licence to own golf clubs!!!

 

[maddmatt]

James, shooting was the fastest growing individual sport in the UK 3 years, it is very much 'treated' like grass root straw bale shooting, the CPSA, the governing body, have IMO lacked the right leadership, lacked direction and lacked ambition because their fear the grass root shooter, hence my comment about splitting them in to two separate divisions, one responsible for the development and growth of grass root shooters and one that creates a professional side of the sport

 

[Darkside]

Yeah, them and us...

 

[maddmatt]

Happens in all sports at some stage, event sponsors don't want to see a group of no bodies shoot in a final, they want the 23times world champion, gold medal winners etc, imagine the US masters if 18 handicappers were allowed to enter alongside Tiger Woods!

 

[dashman1]

Agree james.them and us

 

[Bryn12]

If its done right you have a natural progression/filtering process where everyone finds their level, whether its going down the local ground with a few mates for a coffee and a bacon sarnie on a weekend or the serious competitive shooter. Without supporting the grass roots you limit the pool of potential elite competitors which can then be nurtured and supported. The more grass roots shooters you have the more guns/chokes/carts/clays etc., the industry can sell..the greater the volume of products sold then the less the 'premium' the grass roots shooter is charged per unit in order to sponsor the top end, really quite simple. If it's got right then the whole thing develops a self perpetuating momentum BUT the industry and governing bodies need to be singing from the same hymn sheet.

 

[spuddog]

As my other interest is rugby union, can anyone remember what the England team looked like in the early nineties, Will Carling etc and where the sport is now! We were being left behind by New Zealand/Australia etc and it was a players revolt that triggered the rfu into making a change.

So to move on, something will have to change, looking at it now there is a difference in premiership and grass roots rugby. But if you are good enough and want to succeed you can. An ex player in the same team as me at grass roots level has a son in the 1st team squad at Sale.

Depends on your mind set of a them and us, the personalities are the same, if you want it it should drive you on to get on a professional circuit.

Got to start somewhere, if we think that we don't have a spectator sort, no people interested, not good for TV then guess what it won't happen.

Only my thought for what they are worth

 

[Paul_B]

As my other interest is rugby union, can anyone remember what the England team looked like in the early nineties, Will Carling etc and where the sport is now! We were being left behind by New Zealand/Australia etc and it was a players revolt that triggered the rfu into making a change.

So to move on, something will have to change, looking at it now there is a difference in premiership and grass roots rugby. But if you are good enough and want to succeed you can. An ex player in the same team as me at grass roots level has a son in the 1st team squad at Sale.

Depends on your mind set of a them and us, the personalities are the same, if you want it it should drive you on to get on a professional circuit.

Got to start somewhere, if we think that we don't have a spectator sort, no people interested, not good for TV then guess what it won't happen.

Only my thought for what they are worth

Agree, played decent level colts rugby union in the dying days of the glorious amateur game in the late 80's, the moved to Rugby League at open age and got a HUGE shock. Thank god the RFU finally woke up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shaun Hopkins]

Yeah, them and us..

Think I would be a good idea James to read your quotes on your profile again or are they just plagiarisms rankster: