Used gun resale

[Macc Ladd]

He's italian and used to play for Chelsea!!

 

[Chris Hill]

P.s. What is a Zoli????

Zoli don't even know what my Zoli is!

 

[westley]

Robert, I know, I know............the cost of my last lipstick was frightening !

 

[Matt_L]

Well I'm afraid that simple maths is just not good enough!

If the dealer sells the gun at £4,990 then that will be inclusive of VAT as the £990 is inclusive of 20% VAT i.e. £165 so his GROSS profit would only be £825.  I expect you still think that's too much but he'll probably have to give a discount off the sale price.

However unless this RFD is a one man band operating from home then its likely that he's got business premises to pay for, business rates, staff to employ, advertising and all the other costs associated with running a business like interest, bank charges, RFD licence etc etc.

£825 is his margin or gross profit which is 20% of £4k or 17% of £4,825 - not unreasonable figures at all!

Think about what you think a reasonable figure would be and then imagine how many guns you'd have to sell to make a living like that.

Business people, or entrepreneurs as they are known, have to sell goods for as much as they can get for them and pay as little as they can for them to make a NET profit!

Sorry but the accountant in me has come out here!

Watch the Apprentice - Lord Sugar says this with every opportunity!

Is VAT chargeable on second hand guns?  

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Doh...!

 

[Jay]

The experience of selling your guns via Guntrader is quite similar to selling a car on Autotrader, it's very likely you'll have to deal with the odd moron or two. The Perazzi I just traded was still very new and I had some dickhead trying to say it had too much history in an attempt to bring down the price. A good lesson I learnt is to never respond to text messages enquiries, if they're genuinely in the market for a gun they'll phone.

Instead I traded mine in with a dealer, and got a very good deal that i'm very happy with. I needed to get a gun with longer barrels to get used to it over the Winter series, and Guntrader wasn't working for me.

 

[evoracer]

As a rough rule of thumb the price we pay is seven times what it costs to manufacture many items, retailers are obviously not on that kind of margin for guns or accessories and it varies greatly from item to item.

Rick Stein was apparently asked by one of his old school friends how he could justify his outrageous menu prices, what do you do he asked ? I'm a solicitor was the reply. I honestly think we have it good on guns.

Don't get me started on them crooks £8k bill 2 weeks before christmas just what I didn't order!

 

[Doctor Lecter]

we are our own worst enemy ,  my lesson learned is don't keep changing guns ,  do some sound research , make sure it fits well ,  and enjoy .!   I have chased a majic wand for years  cost me a small fortune  and to be honest im stiil in b class !

 

[RobertBeard]

Is VAT chargeable on second hand guns?

Just like any other secondhand goods like cars, antiques, caravans etc. if you are a VAT registered business you can use the secondhand goods scheme whereby instead of accounting for Vat on the whole sales price as for new items you can just account for Vat on the profit you have made. If sold at the asking price the profit inc Vat is £990 or £825 for the dealer and £165 for the Vat man!
The clue is in the name Value Added. The tax is paid on the bit of value he added to sell it. I've never really agreed with HMRC's definition of value in this context but it is a good description in a manufacturing or services environment.

 

[dashman1]

Good advice Dr lecter

 

[RobertBeard]

The moment you bought the gun for £6k the Vat man collected £1k from the dealer so the gun was only then worth £5k as you walked out of the shop and that was all the dealer got for it so he's going to buy it back from you for less hence his £4k offer to you.

Good advice to buy secondhand if you can and save a lot of Vat.

If only it was still only 8%

 

[shootinguru]

If only? I was 20 half hard and playful all the time :crazy:   If only?    If only?

 

[Jan Powell]

£6000! For a Zoli!

No offence but that's crazy.

 

[Salopian]

£6000 for a Zoli !

I think we all need to realise that the shotgun market is driven by the prices being asked by a certain German manufacturer for guns made out of rusty old Messerschmidts. If they can ask circa £12K for their product ( just thought , are they made from Junkas?).

Then it only seems reasonable that Perazzi , Blaser etc. should be in the same market.

Which is rather confusing when you think that the finest guns are made in Japan , travel around the World to Britain , yet still retail for less than £3K ???

 

[Rosso]

They are all  over priced. Basic engineering, cnc cut, hand finished, most have laser cnc engraving, wood from Turkey.

Considering its a minority sport, not televised, etc i am surprised they are worth any where near the price's they charge.

Then you go on a clay shoot and risk them getting smashed up on poorly set up grounds.

I think I would rather have one made from re-cycled Messerschmidt's than Lancia's and Alfa's.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

£6000 for a Zoli !

I think we all need to realise that the shotgun market is driven by the prices being asked by a certain German manufacturer for guns made out of rusty old Messerschmidts. If they can ask circa £12K for their product ( just thought , are they made from Junkas?).

Then it only seems reasonable that Perazzi , Blaser etc. should be in the same market.

Which is rather confusing when you think that the finest guns are made in Japan , travel around the World to Britain , yet still retail for less than £3K ???

And off we go on the Miroku wuuuuuhhhaaank

 

[Rosso]

And off we go on the Miroku wuuuuuhhhaaank

WTF is that?

 

[no.1topdog]

WTF is that?

It's like a Krieghoff wuuuuuhhhaaank but with Geisha Girls and lotus flowers, instead of lederhosen and frothy beer!  :sarcastic:

 

[chanonry]

Interesting isn't it.

So £6000 new but including 20% VAT. So Divide by 1.2 and you get a new cost for the gun of £5000.  The fact you wanted a new gun and paid the tax has no value to me, so that can be written off straight away (unless it is very rare and highly desirable).  Then it is how much depreciation is reasonable in the first year. Getting £4000 implies a 20% depreciation on cost, or 33% in the first year on the after tax cost. That is in line with what you would expect from a car.

The dealer is pitching it at £4990. He is expecting a trade and a haggle. If we walked in with cash there is no way we would be accepting £150 off, we should be looking for 10% for cash? So I am at £4400. If not there are plenty others for sale, its a competitive world. 

Not such a sexy deal now. Gross profit of 10% pre tax and overheads. Hardly worth the effort is it? I make better margins selling logs...

 

[Tim]

They are all  over priced. Basic engineering, cnc cut, hand finished, most have laser cnc engraving, wood from Turkey.

Considering its a minority sport, not televised, etc i am surprised they are worth any where near the price's they charge.

Then you go on a clay shoot and risk them getting smashed up on poorly set up grounds.

I think I would rather have one made from re-cycled Messerschmidt's than Lancia's and Alfa's.

I didn't think there was anything left of Lancia's and Alfa's to recycle.

But what you're paying for isn't the same thing as what you're buying - you're paying to keep the company in business, that means the factory overheads, R & D (not cheap), the MD's chair, Mandy the receptionist's fancy phone thing and coffee machine and innumerable other expenses they have, otherwise your favourite brand of shotgun goes out of business.