FITASC TRAP1

[balltrap]

PhilR said............... I'm not interested in shooting 'easy' fast trap,

You need to visit the DCTC aka the fish its harder than Beverly :lol:

 

[ips]

he is right you know. Hardest abt in UK by far.

I may be a bit thick but I don't get the point of fedecat. What is it about trap 135 that is sposed to make us favour it as oppose to abt ot. I don't get it. !!!

trap in UK is already on its arse (apart from dtl) lucky to get 100 entries in a major event tells you something so why dilute what is already weak. ???

dtl has never been messed with and continues to enjoy relatively good entries. OT has always been niche and accepted as such. Abt started to rot as soon as the line was introduced which opened the gates for continual and unnecessary changes, now that virtually all abt is shot on a trench layout you stand there wondering why your not just shooting ot. Bring in more disciplines much of a muchness and all trap disciplines will suffer, Imo of course.

 

[jwpzx9r]

he is right you know. Hardest abt in UK by far.

I may be a bit thick but I don't get the point of fedecat. What is it about trap 135 that is sposed to make us favour it as oppose to abt ot. I don't get it. !!!

trap in UK is already on its arse (apart from dtl) lucky to get 100 entries in a major event tells you something so why dilute what is already weak. ???

dtl has never been messed with and continues to enjoy relatively good entries. OT has always been niche and accepted as such. Abt started to rot as soon as the line was introduced which opened the gates for continual and unnecessary changes, now that virtually all abt is shot on a trench layout you stand there wondering why your not just shooting ot. Bring in more disciplines much of a muchness and all trap disciplines will suffer, Imo of course.

I have said it before only to be cried down, for some perverse reason, but the only reason that ABT is not accepted is the fact that competitors want to know they are in an equitable competition. I have said it before and people who obviously do not understand probability have told me that after even a hundred rounds of ABT you will get somebody on the same line as another shoot the same targets ... one pair of shooters! Let me tell you the laws of probability will tell you, you could shoot thousands of rounds of before even two people shot the same targets let alone the entire line would statistically at least get the same set of targets... But for some reason that is of no consequence.

If stupidity is key then those shooting ABT as a competitive sport are right up there at the head of the field . That is not to say I would not shoot it if the field was level and the targets for all the same... I know people down here that won't even shoot DTL because the targets are different for all shooters. If ABT is to be a serious trap discipline then the event must be regulated to present all shooters with the same objective. If ABT had been sorted so that all shooters in the competition shot exactly the same targets then I have no doubt in my mind that it would most likely be the most popular trap discipline shot as it is a fraction of the cost of other setups... but yet it languishes.

edit

and just for good measure the statistics for ABT are totally meaning less because..... there is no equity of targets shot   unfortunately the massage is not getting through to those who continue to post the proclamation .

 

[Mutley]

Glass balls, thats the answer

Dont fill with feathers, a bit of Black powder or C4 would make it exciting....

Or we just reinvent the ISU and go back to 36g at real OT, 80+m, 45 degree angles and 200 bird shoots and the highest score wins.....

 

[ips]

but john that IS the game that is ABT it matters not a if it isn't "fare" everyone signs up for it knowingly. With respect the not fare argument is no argument at all. In OT for instance you could shoot in the morning in very poor light and high wind and your mate shoots in afternoon with the sun behind him and the wind has dropped, how unfair is that.

Glass balls, thats the answer

Dont fill with feathers, a bit of Black powder or C4 would make it exciting....

Or we just reinvent the ISU and go back to 36g at real OT, 80+m, 45 degree angles and 200 bird shoots and the highest score wins.....

the highest score wins....what a brilliant idea I wonder why that isn't done now, oh I remember its to make a really nail biting final for the hordes of spectators that frequent OT shoots ?

 

[jwpzx9r]

but john that IS the game that is ABT it matters not a if it isn't "fare" everyone signs up for it knowingly. With respect the not fare argument is no argument at all. In OT for instance you could shoot in the morning in very poor light and high wind and your mate shoots in afternoon with the sun behind him and the wind has dropped, how unfair is that.

Ian can I ask an honest question ... do you know what you are saying?  Exactly the same conditions that you are talking about applies to every form of shooting...even ABT... the difference is that not withstanding weather the true competition event shooter will know he got the same targets regardless of the weather and can gauge his performance based on the fact he may have shot in better conditions than another shooter. He will at least be able to know that the reason he did badly compared to another shooter is not down to the fact that he hot 8 extreme right targets as opposed to the other shooter who only got 5! If I shot 22 at FU in terrible conditions  and another shot 24 in totally benign I can at least feel good about myself knowing that we shot the same targets that is the vagaries of shooting. Shooting different targets and in some way other another trying to compare the results statistically is just laughable.

 

[balltrap]

I cannot see any technical reason why ABT cannot be computer controlled maybe nobody has tried to do it ! 

 

[ips]

honest reply john is yes I do.

if your scared of abt then its your prerogative not to shoot it. ? i have never heard any abt shooter complain after the event that he didn't win because he got all the hard targets. When I watched the brilliant Ian peel shoot 200 straight at the English open abt at cheddar in 1998 no one in the crowd said "lucky begger had all easy targets he wouldn't have done it if he had my targets"

 

[balltrap]

honest reply john is yes I do.

if your scared of abt then its your prerogative not to shoot it. ? i have never heard any abt shooter complain after the event that he didn't win because he got all the hard targets. When I watched the brilliant Ian peel shoot 200 straight at the English open abt at cheddar in 1998 no one in the crowd said "lucky begger had all easy targets he wouldn't have done it if he had my targets"




 




 

It never enters my head that what targets i get i just try to deal with them, the easy targets are all to  missable and the chance of you getting all easy or all hard is about 0

 

[ips]

exactly. Everyone who is man enough to shoot abt does not question it, it is what it is and we sign up for it. Anyway law of averages would Imo dictate that it isn't THAT unfair after 100 targets ?

 

[balltrap]

The scheme setup at OT can favor one shooter from another is that fair John !

 

[ips]

good point dave

 

[Mutley]

I would love one of these cantebury systems...

 

[jwpzx9r]

The scheme setup at OT can favor one shooter from another is that fair John !

Really ? Do Tell.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

ALRIGHT ! ! !  That's Enough!  ABT is not fair.  BFD!  Nobody is forced to shoot it.  Personally, I would be so excited to have an ABT field to shoot I'd prolly pee myself.  And as I have mentioned several times before - This Is The 21st Century.  It would child's play to build or mod an ABT trap machine to throw a set variety of targets just like OT.  If any one actually wanted to do it.  Where is the market?  Market drives innovation in anything.  Shooting organizations squabbling over imagined turf and borderline profitable grounds are not gonna inspire any innovator.  I'm not gonna pretend I have any solution, but I do know that if I had the $ it would be a TabA/SlotB  situation to build one for me to use.  Screw the rest of you  (I'm wearing my Organization President Hat) I'll do what I want.    :smoke:

 

[jwpzx9r]

"This Is The 21st Century.  It would child's play to build or mod an ABT trap machine to throw a set variety of targets just like OT.  If any one actually wanted to do it. "

Nail hit squarely on the head Charlie. However to make something appealing to shooters and clubs there has to be a reason. I really do not see any club down here rushing out to replace their FO and FU setups. I know of nowhere in the areas covered by the leagues I shoot in where there is the existence of a ABT and have never seen or heard of a competition for ABT in France. I suspect that ABT is popular in the UK but don't know where else it is shot. Of course the reasons for it being shot in the UK are quite obvious nearly all the shooting grounds are run for profit by business's... one trap in the trench for the shooters to pay the same as a setup with 5 traps is a nobrainer for them and if they can get away with it... and they can that is what the shooter get for his cash... cheap, cheap, cheap is the cry. To be honest I think that the trap shooters in the UK do an outstanding job for themselves in the face of adversity, I am talking about the ones winning international and Olympic honours here. I can understand why you would like to be able to shoot it though if AT is the alternative. As an aside I think though that an ABT trap may have its limitations in terms of the number of programmable schemes it could  reproduce... although I could be totally wrong there... anyway lets not go there real men are stupid enough not to know that shooting the same targets as your competitors is usually a prerequisite of what is termed a competition and it the British way dontcha know.

 

[ips]

abt "was" extremely popular in France I believe, I didn't know that it no longer was.

as for computerised abt ...well it wouldn't be abt would it. The beauty of abt was and remains simplicity and low cost to install. I really don't see why anyone can't accept it for what it is.

 

[balltrap]

abt "was" extremely popular in France I believe, I didn't know that it no longer was.

as for computerised abt ...well it wouldn't be abt would it. The beauty of abt was and remains simplicity and low cost to install. I really don't see why anyone can't accept it for what it is.




 

I do, its just the odd frog that has the hump

 

[Wonko the Sane]

What I want to see is some fairness in the ZZ and pigeon rings.  I mean, talk about UNFAIR!!

abt "was" extremely popular in France I believe, I didn't know that it no longer was.

as for computerised abt ...well it wouldn't be abt would it. The beauty of abt was and remains simplicity and low cost to install. I really don't see why anyone can't accept it for what it is.

Ian, if the thing was computer driven you'd never know the difference as a shooter.  If the program were properly written it would be no more complicated than pick the scheme you want, buttons 1->9, and how many shooters are there.  

But I know what you mean about the simplicity and I totally agree.  And the straight line was a big mistake in a number of ways.

 

[ips]

yes but it would cost more money so many smaller local shoots could not put it on. No abt shooter in UK that I am aware of is bothered about it not being "fare"