Noob Again - Lead

[bordergun]

Another eight e mails this morning. Thank you, please keep them coming.

 

[bordergun]

Will What you said in your earlier post about one guys sees 10 feet, another 6 feet is correct of course. My friend Chris Batha says the same thing ie. "one mans 3 feet is another mans 6 feet". Exactly. Chris and I did our CPSA course at Stile Hollow many years ago.

But this is where the concept of seeing lead at the muzzle really comes into its own. Try asking 10 NEW shooters to shoot a low one on a skeet field and to give the target a 1 finger lead. My guess is they will ALL break the target. Get them to do it initially with their off eye closed. Once they do this, that one finger lead will then correlate into EVERY target on a skeet field and standard lead on a sporting clay course.

low house leads 1,2,4,4,2,1,0.
high house leads 0,1,2,4,4,2,1.

For those that have a copy of Successful Shotgunning, (which is still available in the UK and published in 2003) this formula appears in chapter 19 skeet shooting.

 

[paul b]

Found it !!! Ok noob if you realy want to go down this rabbit hole and i advise not to ,this below is a link to a thread from a good while ago that has comments from some of the very best shots in the world talking about different methods and how they see lead.But point being theres many many ways to shoot and all you can do is get a coach to teach you all the tools but you will be the one that ultimately finds what works for you.
https://www.shootclayforum.com/threads/maintained-lead.3831/page-8

 

[RussP]

Found it !!! Ok noob if you realy want to go down this rabbit hole and i advise not to ,this below is a link to a thread from a good while ago that has comments from some of the very best shots in the world talking about different methods and how they see lead.dont think any mention units at any stage though But point being theres many many ways to shoot and all you can do is get a coach to teach you all the tools but you will be the one that ultimately finds what works for you.
https://www.shootclayforum.com/threads/maintained-lead.3831/page-8

TY I am taking some tuition, from Tom Friar at west Kent. I have armed myself with enough theory, I was disappearing up my own event horizon. I think I”ll spend some time getting getting the basics right more often than not, then start on the details. in the meantime I”ll be stocking up the cabinet….

 

[Bebo]

TY I am taking some tuition, from Tom Friar at west Kent. I have armed myself with enough theory, I was disappearing up my own event horizon. I think I”ll spend some time getting getting the basics right more often than not, then start on the details. in the meantime I”ll be stocking up the cabinet….

Just put loads of cartridges through your gun on lots of different targets. You'll get to the point you don't spend ages thinking about lead you just automatically give it what it needs. Not on all targets, but the more you shoot the more you seem to be able to judge what it needs. For me, it's always more about picking the right method than deciding on lead.

 

[bordergun]

Paul B What Richard says here is absolutely correct, EXACTLY what I teach and always have done. If you know the lead, it is very, very easy to do.

BTW what part of Staffordshire? At 9 years old I learned to shoot rabbits and pigeons with a Webley and Scott .410 on my uncles farm, Bucknall farm, Stoke-on-Trent. Happy days!

 

[k80ben]

Jesus h Christ

Would u take driving lessons or driving advice of someone who can’t drive

 

[bordergun]

Ben. Of course not. But would you take piano lessons from someone if after three years all they can play is Three Blind Mice? So why do some take dozens of shooting lessons but still can't hit a cow in the a$$ with a banjo?

 

[k80ben]

Ben. Of course not. But would you take piano lessons from someone if after three years all they can play is Three Blind Mice? So why do some take dozens of shooting lessons but still can't hit a cow in the a$$ with a banjo?

Exactly what I’ve been saying. Problem is that guy keeps offering advice on the internet for free and thinks he’s helping

 

[bordergun]

Ben Of course, you are right as always. Carry on.

 

[bordergun]

These days, there is a huge amount of information on the various Shotgunning forums and YouTube. Everyone is fitting shotguns, showing shooters how to mount their shotguns, what chokes to use etc. etc. But there is very little about the one thing that can influence our success more than any other.....how much lead the target needs.

During Covid, here in the US my book sales spiked. In addition, shooters were enquiring about the books from the UK and across Europe. The cost to send hard copies from the US is now extortionate and a quick glance on Amazon.co.uk will reveal that the Unit Lead book is 59.56 GBP plus 10 GBP delivery.

So, both "You're Behind it!" and "Reading Targets" are now available for electronic download for 8.00 GBP each. The two books are all you will need to decipher the variables of every sporting clay, skeet and trap target.

Anyone who doubts that the methodology works please read the recent post on the "Introduction and gun fit question" on page 12 #232 where the shooter says quote:- "I bought his book etc. etc." That guy came in second at the Nationals here last week and won $10,000.

 

[ColinD]

I doubt very much it was because of the book in all honesty
Perhaps Shootclay should charge an advertisement premium on your posts

 

[bordergun]

Colin D You're correct of course. The guy is a natural and he didn't need the book. Strange that he actually mentioned it though isn't it, because most don't?

And as far as the advertising premium goes, at that price for electronic down load I make a huge amount per copy. So much in fact that this year I almost missed bonfire night over there....we don't have it here in the US and I usually ship them a few boxes of books to use as firelighters.

It would probably be best to continue this discussion if you like via e mail as others have done, not on a public forum? I will be happy to answer your questions.

 

[k80ben]

These days, there is a huge amount of information on the various Shotgunning forums and YouTube. Everyone is fitting shotguns, showing shooters how to mount their shotguns, what chokes to use etc. etc. But there is very little about the one thing that can influence our success more than any other.....how much lead the target needs.

During Covid, here in the US my book sales spiked. In addition, shooters were enquiring about the books from the UK and across Europe. The cost to send hard copies from the US is now extortionate and a quick glance on Amazon.co.uk will reveal that the Unit Lead book is 59.56 GBP plus 10 GBP delivery.

So, both "You're Behind it!" and "Reading Targets" are now available for electronic download for 8.00 GBP each. The two books are all you will need to decipher the variables of every sporting clay, skeet and trap target.

Anyone who doubts that the methodology works please read the recent post on the "Introduction and gun fit question" on page 12 #232 where the shooter says quote:- "I bought his book etc. etc." That guy came in second at the Nationals here last week and won $10,000.

Same guy that came second in a interview credited his placing to lessons from Gebben Miles

 

[bordergun]

https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/how-do-you-see-lead-feet-or-inches.560947/page-5

 

[Westward]

Sigh...

 

[Freddypip]

Assuming you are the same "Bordergun" - though noting you write about the book without saying you're the author - I'm not sure how the thread (not any individual post) helps us. In short it's a series of posts arguing about the benefits or not of the system (or similar).

For me, all the thread does is put me off having what, on this forum, might be a sensible discussion. It is though clear from what is said that any measurement system is not the universal panacea to solve all shooting issues and I don't see any suggestion it's the route to international success.

Peter - This is a small forum and I am sure that most of your potential customers are now (more than fully) aware of your offerings and how to obtain them if required. You have posted on the "for sale" section which is the best place for your books to be advertised.

 

[bordergun]

Freddypip. Yes, you are correct, I am the same Bordergun.

First of all, I had no intention of coming on here again and I did say that. As you can see, rather than give me credit for my client getting to the top by using the Unit Lead methodology, the credit was given to another coach. I put the link on there to ShotgunWorld to prove that wasn't the case. For some reason, many coaches don't want shooters to understand that the Unit Lead and Reading Targets books work and ridicule them, but the smart ones are now using the system to their advantage.

The original post was about applying the correct amount of lead to a moving target? I think we can all agree that most NOOB shooters struggle with this, and even some of the more experienced guys can struggle with the amount of lead they need to give a 60 yard crossing shot or a long looping target? The books show shooters a logical way to very quickly deal with all these problems and as many have now found out, they help. As a result, they progress quickly, hours to read every target on a testing SC course instead of, (in some cases) years. Now, maybe I'm wrong but I thought that would be worth discussing?

So, if shooters are struggling with evaluating targets and all their coach can offer as expensive "advice" is "you're over it, you're under it" or worse still "focus on the leading edge and the magic of your subconscious will tell you where to put the gun" they would find that the two books will help them a lot more than that. But you still need to read them. And you still need to practice.

If you expect the books to fix any eye dominance, gun mounting, gunfit, variable gunspeed problems etc, they won't do that, only experience will. But as many have found out, they will absolutely help with your target reading skills. Primarily, that's why I wrote them, to help shooters with their target reading skills, not to fatten my wallet.

 

[Bavarian]

I think the more or less hidden advertisement is getting a bit boring now.

 

[bordergun]

Bavarian. I'm absolutely not hiding anything at all. Please read the testimonial letter from Mark Kiddie on my web. site. quote:- "Congratulations on writing the definitive book on target leads." Why would he write that if they don't work? And if they don't work, what is the alternative? Continue taking very expensive lessons with coaches that can't explain lead in a logical way? Why would some of the top coaches here in the US now be using the methodology? These two books are far too good for shooters to miss and all the shooters that buy them say similar things "wish I had found them sooner", "should be in every shooting mans library". But for some reason, some don't believe that and many coaches don't want you to read them.

The UL book is 59.86 GBP plus 10 GBP shipping. That price should tell you something? The electronic download that is available now is 8 GBP. My cut after Amazon commission is about 3 GBP so I think that makes it abundantly clear that I'm not doing this for just the money? For the last time, the books really do help shooters and I like to help where I can. Take it or leave it, I'm done here. Anyone who has questions I will be happy to answer them here:-
www.peteblakeley.com Thank you.