Sporting shoots. Where - and how did it go?

[Hamster]

Well while I'm in the mood for sporting bashing. I tell you something else I don't get. Course setters says" I've set this to be won off 95." Why ??.  WTF does that mean . Translation:- my ego is so big I won't allow my course to he straighted.

Why not set it to be won off 100? After all we've paid for a hundred.

Discuss

Jasper.

To be fair I quite like the "rough" approximation of "numbering" a shoots potential. It means you can avoid the straightable ones because most of the targets will be tedious waste of shells, to me one set for 95/96 is perfik because it means the setter is clued up  so you can break the skin of a 90+ if you happen to be on it, by contrast setting one up to be won on a 90 is again going the other way  :huh:  because it means the chap is on an ego trip and in his haste to guarantee misses even for the best shots, he will be punishing almost everyone else and entertaining nobody. You can spot these shoots easily the day after when one score in the 90's is followed by a dozen barely past 80. 

 

[jasper]

To be fair I quite like the "rough" approximation of "numbering" a shoots potential. It means you can avoid the strightable ones because most of the targets will be tedious waste of shells, to me one set for 95/96 is perfik because it means the setter is clued up  so you can break the skin of a 90+ if you happen to be on it, by contrast setting one up to be won on a 90 is again going the other way  :huh:  because it means the chap is on an ego trip and in his haste to guarantee misses even for the best shots, he will be punishing almost everyone else and entertaining nobody. You can spot these shoots easily the day after when one score in the 90's is followed by a dozen barely past 80. 

Ok so my numbers maybe out slightly but you get the gist. 

 

[Will Hewland]

The fact is, the difficulty roughly affects all shooters as a similar percentage increase in losses. So at a tough shoot where people are missing 75% more than normal, it means the top guys miss 7 instead of their usual 4. (96 becomes 93). This also means that the person who usually misses 20 will miss 35. (80 becomes 65). Not scientific, but it's the sort of effect that course setters need to remember. 

 

[Westward]

could be the fact that once that becomes the norm , surely it becomes less of a challenge , and like skeet and DTL the miss one and go home , may well prevail ?? got no problem with any top shooter putting in big score , but if he or she is on 99 and the following pack are all 98's 97s 96s it may well have been  he or she had a bit of luck and the others may have not ....( bouncing rabbit , slow pull, the off line targets , flight line due to gusts of wind etc ) why have we bred a majority of shooters pre fixed on scores rather than enjoying challenging targets ? why does anyone want to be AAA when they are at A class level ??? bemuses me , prizes at most majors favour A-B-C ? me I would want to stay where I was competitive , and attend shoots that kept me there ? no point shooting 90's to fall apart at the bigger prized shoots ??  

Registered sporting is a commercial operation and business rules dictate they should concentrate on providing a product to suit the greatest number of customers.This means concentrating on the overwhelming majority who are rarely competitive in their class, hardly ever win a prize and who are mostly competing against either themselves or a few others at a similar level. Even though many of them will never get to A never mind AAA, they've paid the same for the right to be there and they don't want to go home wishing they'd spent their £££ somewhere else because the targets were set for the top 10%.

Working as a ref I've seen too many fed up shooters at ordinary Sunday shoots moaning that they've been beaten up by the course setter.

 

[Will Hewland]

Well I went to Westfield today, to see what the fuss was about. This being a course that Steve Lovatt had apologised to his punters for on Facebook as he had had complaints and a few walk off before finishing etc. He kept it on for a practice shoot today.

It was very windy, not too gusty but it did make one stand pretty unshootable. 100 yards I reckon the second clay was at the kill point. Another screaming high overhead away was blown downwards but I only missed one of those. (8 feet of lead underneath to hit it). I shot the course exactly as the competition (apart from one rabbit not on today) and managed 78, while my mate (lower end of A class) hit 55. Basically I hit 8 below my average while he was 21 below his (which illustrates what I was discussing earlier, about how tough shoots affect the range of shooters). 

Verdict; apart from the mad stand (which would not have been as severe on the real shoot day) it was great to shoot but certainly on the tough end of the spectrum. It was simply a case of too many testing stands, not that the target setting (per stand) was poor. Back three stands off and it would have shot fine IMO.

 

[jasper]

Fair assessment.?which was the mad stand ??? 

 

[Steve Lovatt]

The mad stand was the pair of incomers at the top of the ground , but saying this Tim Thornett hit all the long ones that were blowing away and missed all the closer ones , a local glos girl also hit the very long one so I wouldn't say unshootabkr but certainly was extreme .

 

[Will Hewland]

The mad stand was the pair of incomers at the top of the ground , but saying this Tim Thornett hit all the long ones that were blowing away and missed all the closer ones , a local glos girl also hit the very long one so I wouldn't say unshootabkr but certainly was extreme .

I was trying to shoot it as it rolled over. It had been blown away by then, so likely best to try it on the way up as a lot nearer.. I admit I'm not used to reading a high shallow angle looper at that distance..

 

[jasper]

To be fair it was pretty mad at the proper shoot too . It did have a bit of breeze up it that day too, although nothing like today.

Jasper. 

 

[Charliej]

The mad stand was the pair of incomers at the top of the ground , but saying this Tim Thornett hit all the long ones that were blowing away and missed all the closer ones , a local glos girl also hit the very long one so I wouldn't say unshootabkr but certainly was extreme .

Please don't soften your shoot too much alot of punters will travel along way to have a go at some proper tough targets not our usual sub 30 yard ones which often are more of an eye test than anything else. Keep up your good targets ????

 

[schmokinn]

We regularly drive a couple of hours to shoot at Westfeild and there has never been a target i haven't hit though consistently is a different matter!

Love the variety of targets.

Did not like that damn double flying bunny at the Kreighoff though just couldn't stop myself shooting over it!! :blink:

 

[Charliej]

We regularly drive a couple of hours to shoot at Westfeild and there has never been a target i haven't hit though consistently is a different matter!

Love the variety of targets.

Did not like that damn double flying bunny at the Kreighoff though just couldn't stop myself shooting over it!! :blink:

Exactly my point how's anyone going to improve unless they shoot at these types of presentations,unless they just want to remain big fish in very little ponds ????????

 

[jasper]

Charliej

Just to be clear, were you at the registered shoot that is being talked about or the practice day on the same targets yesterday. ?

Jasper.

 

[Charliej]

Charliej

Just to be clear, were you at the registered shoot that is being talked about or the practice day on the same targets yesterday. ?

Jasper.

Actually no but have enjoyed their targets in the past sounds like it was a good set of challaging targets though ?

 

[schmokinn]

I think in many cases people call targets Extreme/Stupid when they just cannot hit them through poor technique or misreading them and then repeating the mistake for every pair.

I just admit that it is my mistake generally then watching somebody murder them and realise where i went wrong.

A favourite example is when somebody doesn't realise it is a midi and thinks the 30m bird is 50m and then gives it way to much and still believes they are behind it,i have learnt to ask the ref if i am not sure!

My worst target scenario is a simo pair where the target you need/want to shoot first appears last,damn pesky course setters (stand one Kreighoff blue course i think?)

 

[Westward]

Exactly my point how's anyone going to improve unless they shoot at these types of presentations,unless they just want to remain big fish in very little ponds

I think what you're missing here is that, as I mentioned earlier, the majority aren't big fish in any size of pond and don't have any realistic expectations to ever be one. Most people reach a level after a few years and stop improving, regardless of how often they shoot or how tough the targets are. For every keen classification warrior who wants to be challenged in order to climb the rankings, there are dozens of older shooters or those who've taken on new responsibilities like children, mortgages etc. who are firmly lodged in C, B or A and don't want to be relentlessly kicked by 12 tough stands. Apart from the fact that I personally fit exactly that profile, I can also say that when on  reffing duty I get to talk to many shooters in the Glos, Wilts, Oxon, Devon and Avon region and the only time I hear criticism of Gunsite, Coley's, or Churchill's as being ego boosting vanity shoots is from people who never seem to shoot there.

 

[schmokinn]

Don't really think its about fish and ponds i like a challenge,if there wasn't one i might as well go back to spending all Sunday in the pub!

 

[Westward]

Don't really think its about fish and ponds i like a challenge,if there wasn't one i might as well go back to spending all Sunday in the pub!

Well there are challenges and then there are challenges. It's all very well challenging yourself by shooting 70yd midis, 60 yard battues or crossers with a ½ second window, but why not challenge yourself to hit all the clays within 35yds and at least half of the longer ones?

If you can achieve that regularly you'll be in AA before you know it.

 

[schmokinn]

Well there are challenges and then there are challenges. It's all very well challenging yourself by shooting 70yd midis, 60 yard battues or crossers with a ½ second window, but why not challenge yourself to hit all the clays within 35yds and at least half of the longer ones?

If you can achieve that regularly you'll be in AA before you know it.

Not usually the longer ones i have a problem with

 

[Will Hewland]

Owls Lodge premier league final this morning for me.  The course was set over 13 stands and laid out differently in front of clubhouse, pushing stands out towards far bank, as last year. I like the layout.

It wasn't an easy shoot with lots of edgey and sim pairs. Just the far side of obvious, much of it. A good test on about 9 stands, with some stuff shooting tougher than it looked, especially the sim orange and green r-l pair.

By my third stand I was 7 down. Then various 1s and 2s kept slipping.. Had to dig deep for a better second half and hit 86, which is my average but no disaster today. Enjoyed it but stiffer than this event last year for sure. 93 leading when I left, with some very good names around 90. I reckon there is a 95 there if somebody is tidy.