steel chalenge

[Doctor Lecter]

anyone  shooting the orston 100 esp steel challenge  this Sunday 12th  , I'm having a go , I'm interested to test steel shells over 12 stands ,  and  see how they and ( me )  perform  and the cost shell wise    !!!  

 

[Jonny English]

I was hoping to go but family commitments mean I have to shoot Saturday this week, which is a bit of a shame.

On a side note though I pattern tested my miroku 20 bore ready for game season the other day and popped an eley vip Pro eco steel 24 gram 4's through to see what they pattern like, and I was pleasantly surprised. I patterned with 1/4 choke at 25 yards, my 28 gram Fibre wad normal game carts, ultimate 20, Zenith and HPE all in 5 or 5.5 were all giving around 21" of usable pattern. The steel vip pro eco were a little tighter at 19" but a lovely and even pattern and an incredibly low number of flyers. Recoil was very manageable as well  looking forward to trying some out on the clays and a bit of game this year.

I've also had a could of the wads in the garden for a month and a half to see how they decompose, eley claim mush in 1 month and completely gone in 3. I've had one in a plant pot that's been very dry and is on its way ok, but would benefit from a damper environment and 1 in compost in the bottom of a plant that has almost gone. I would say that in damp winter conditions they will degrade pretty well.

 

[bostonmick]

So we had basc at one time supposedly arguing to keep lead but then all of a sudden became the champions of steel now if clay grounds start with steel days we will soon lose all lead.it has already been seen that steel produces less effective kills on some game shots.gunsmiths say the  barrel damage they see has increased.then there is the risk of ricochet of steel on clays.it only needs one defective wad and your barrel is damaged for good and on high end guns that would devastate their value.lets not be to keen to give up proven well established parts of our sport.its already being eroded fast enough to please the new woke element .

 

[Freddypip]

I appreciate entirely that there is  alot of opposition to steel, and the reasons given often make sense. Equally however we should keep an open mind and I agree with the good Doctor that shooting a comp will provide some personal feedback and allow a wider picture to be built up. Jonny's comment are also very helpful. Lets get the info together so that any arguments against are better supporteds and any against lead better understood.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

So we had basc at one time supposedly arguing to keep lead but then all of a sudden became the champions of steel now if clay grounds start with steel days we will soon lose all lead.it has already been seen that steel produces less effective kills on some game shots.gunsmiths say the  barrel damage they see has increased.then there is the risk of ricochet of steel on clays.it only needs one defective wad and your barrel is damaged for good and on high end guns that would devastate their value.lets not be to keen to give up proven well established parts of our sport.its already being eroded fast enough to please the new woke element .

totally agree ,   basc and cpsa plus other organisations pushing the idea on steel ,   hang on these elected bodies need to consult the membership  !!!    referendum ?   

 

[Gavin]

So we had basc at one time supposedly arguing to keep lead but then all of a sudden became the champions of steel now if clay grounds start with steel days we will soon lose all lead.it has already been seen that steel produces less effective kills on some game shots.gunsmiths say the  barrel damage they see has increased.then there is the risk of ricochet of steel on clays.it only needs one defective wad and your barrel is damaged for good and on high end guns that would devastate their value.lets not be to keen to give up proven well established parts of our sport.its already being eroded fast enough to please the new woke element .

100% agree  supporting shoots like this is a nail in the coffin for lead.  But sure why not everyone just rolls over in woke mixed up world we live in now 

 

[DavidJ]

Interesting film 10,000 steel eco shells vs new shotgun

I shot 24g Steel at a local shoot over the summer months before the pandemic and it made no difference to kills and scores.

 

[perazman]

What happens to fibre only grounds if we follow the steel shot route? Remember fibre currently out sells plastic.

Many of these shoots I'd consider the grass roots of the sport. Are the people who frequent them meant to shell out £400 a thou for eco wad alternatives? Many people will just quit with finances already being stretched. We're cutting our own throats. My BASC membership was binned for this very reason.

PM.

 

[jwpzx9r]

The problem is that a great many people shoot very good quality shotguns that are not proofed for steel ... what do they do junk them and spend another £10k+ on a new one? I can see a lot of shooters just packing it in if lead gets banned .

While I am on my soapbox why are FITASC not being proactive in reducing the maximum allowed loads in their competitions to 24g ?

 

[TRINITY]

I am sure when push comes to shove. The cartridge companies will be producing a reasonably priced steel cartridge with eco wads. If they dont they will go out of business simple as that.

We can kick and rail all we want but the days of pumping lead and plastic into the environment are numbered.

 

[ColinD]

Interesting film 10,000 steel eco shells vs new shotgun

I shot 24g Steel at a local shoot over the summer months before the pandemic and it made no difference to kills and scores.

Well I bet Yildiz are over the moon with that video, and puts a lot of the review videos about the make in the bin

 

[bostonmick]

I appreciate entirely that there is  alot of opposition to steel, and the reasons given often make sense. Equally however we should keep an open mind and I agree with the good Doctor that shooting a comp will provide some personal feedback and allow a wider picture to be built up. Jonny's comment are also very helpful. Lets get the info together so that any arguments against are better supporteds and any against lead better understood.

The argument that seems to be at the forefront of the anti lead campaign was people being poisoned eating lead shot game.however after hundreds of years of us eating this no evidence of anyone being harmed by this could be produced.as for the need in clay shooting all dedicated shooting grounds are just that not grazing land or veg growing land .also these grounds have lead on them from years of shooting with no ill effects and by switching to steel does not make that land clean.i shoot at a couple of small clubs that have been there for around forty years cattle are grazed on this land and never has one eaten a wad or died of lead poisoning.leave well alone.each and every thing that is given up to please the wokes is just anotherstep towards their goal of a total ban on shooting and the ownership of guns by individuals. Shoot steel if you want but ftom choice not mandated.before i retired i ran a co disposal landfill site this ground had neen taking all manner of contaminated and hazadous waste for oversixty years then new regs came and it changed overnight to a domestic waste only and in the eyes of the authorities this made it a clean area just another example of the modern day stupidity.

 

[Salopian]

Yes, this is a very emotive and contentious subject and personally I struggle to see (A) what the REAL issue is with Lead after all these years , and (B) Why have none of the shooting organisations defended us?

BASC jumped on the political band wagon thirty years ago and whilst saying they would defend shooters use of lead they really have sold us down the river , especially in the last eighteen months where they actively promote using steel shot .

Recently BASC have produced a very well written booklet called 'Moving Away From Lead Shot'  it is a pity that they haven't used their resources in the past to defend the use of Lead shot .  

If Steel is the way forward and Lead is such a bad , toxic product why has BASC and other organisations not campaigned vigorously for the banning of Lead flashing on roofs and gutters ? Every house being built , every Church , infact practically every building has lead in some shape or form in its construction.

If Lead is such a bad thing ,why are we not ripping up all our fields and roads to remove lead piping from out of the ground , after all are we not growing the future food,  Vegetables , in contaminated soil? 

I really am looking forward to seeing how many people shoot Game with steel this season and if it is the answer to all of shootings problems , or will we have horror stories of maimed and injured birds ?

 

[bostonmick]

Yes, this is a very emotive and contentious subject and personally I struggle to see (A) what the REAL issue is with Lead after all these years , and (B) Why have none of the shooting organisations defended us?

BASC jumped on the political band wagon thirty years ago and whilst saying they would defend shooters use of lead they really have sold us down the river , especially in the last eighteen months where they actively promote using steel shot .

Recently BASC have produced a very well written booklet called 'Moving Away From Lead Shot'  it is a pity that they haven't used their resources in the past to defend the use of Lead shot .  

If Steel is the way forward and Lead is such a bad , toxic product why has BASC and other organisations not campaigned vigorously for the banning of Lead flashing on roofs and gutters ? Every house being built , every Church , infact practically every building has lead in some shape or form in its construction.

If Lead is such a bad thing ,why are we not ripping up all our fields and roads to remove lead piping from out of the ground , after all are we not growing the future food,  Vegetables , in contaminated soil? 

I really am looking forward to seeing how many people shoot Game with steel this season and if it is the answer to all of shootings problems , or will we have horror stories of maimed and injured birds ?

Your last point is very interesting.steel shot at some of the high pheasant shoots therewill be many birds that are just pricked and will be runners giving the antis ample oppurtunity to film such on their cameras to plaster the internet with.captions will all be these birdswill run and die in a ditch in agony.all those who shoot these should startlooking for alternative shoots as no doubt these will soon be gone

 

[TRINITY]

There are some extremely valid points about not banning lead. I agree with everyone . However common sense and strong evidence for its continuation are irrelevent. We do not live in common sense times anymore . For instance man has been burning wood ever sinse he developed the skill of lighting fire and yet wood burning stoves are starting be be made illegal.  Personally I have accepted the inevitability of the situation. I would never buy a gun that is not steel proof or is very tight fixed choke. Arguing and fighting a ban is an exercise in futility ,best thing to do is accept it.  The forward thinking people in the industry should use skill and innovation to adapt so that the change has minimal effect to our sport.

 

[Freddypip]

My point was not whether banning lead is right or wrong but that by attending shoots and trying steel we at least understand how it might affect clay shooting.

Personally I have not shot steel and certainly feel I should before coming to any firm judgment on whether it is good or bad for me as a clay (only) shooter.

I would say however that the role sof BASC & CPSA are different so I can easily see the annoyance with BASC's stance if it doesn't fit with game shooting.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

Use of lead has been banned here in the Netherlands for quite some time now. For clay shooting as a sport, the consequences are minimal. Rising prices, scarcity of shooting venues and public perception of shooting sports are each (and more so jointly) of far greater influence to the future of the sport.  

I can't personally attest for the impact the shift to steel has had on game shooting, but game shooting is still going on as before. I would argue that the differences in effective range and terminal performance require an adaption by the shooter - but it is up to the participants to practise and for everyone to know their own limitations and those of their material. The ability to adapt and overcome is sort of vital in evolutionary processes. 

For the occasional game shot, how many birds a season would one let fly when shooting steel, that you would have shot (at) when using lead? If it's out of effective range for steel shot, is it truly inside the range of one's skills for a "sure kill" each time? Letting a bird fly because it is out of range can be the better decision. 

I'm not advocating one way or the other (I don't know enough about lead to counter either argument), but a switch to steel shot isn't the end-all to shooting sports. An all-steel match seems like a good way to put steel cartridges to the test without feeling 'disadvantaged', so why not try as opposed to standing on the sidelines saying that such matches shouldn't be organised?    

 

[Deershooter]

Just seen the price of the steel cartridges for this shoot £7 a box or £65 a slab .I know we have had to wear masks but is Dick Turpin still alive ? He must be ! Come on someone having our legs up with this steel should be 1/3 cheaper than lead 

 

[bostonmick]

Just seen the price of the steel cartridges for this shoot £7 a box or £65 a slab .I know we have had to wear masks but is Dick Turpin still alive ? He must be ! Come on someone having our legs up with this steel should be 1/3 cheaper than lead 

With our so called organisations joining nay leading the charge to steel its no wonder the price is going up in preperation.yes we are being shafted plain and simple