The future of ABT

[garry2749]

Where's Les ???? :girlcrazy:   :girlcrazy:   :girlcrazy:   :girlcrazy:

 

[jwpzx9r]

The Op's question about ABT I take it he means in the UK rather than at any sort of international level? If that is the case then surely it will trundle along as it has been doing because people like to shoot it. If at an international level then not much of a future because people tend to shoot the games that are internationally recognised and perhaps can lead to winning world championships and Olympic medals.

 

[PhilR]

The ISSF no longer seem to control Automatic Trap which to all intents and purposes is ABT with the exception of the reduction to 24gms. I think FITASC were going to consider it as an alternative to UT. Certainly Peter Croft as President of BICTSF, and now on the Board of FITASC, was looking to adapt the rules on the CPSA website to suit, but that was in September 2013.

 

[Les53]

OK I will now put my bit into this! ABT is not and never was an easy shoot! I too have heard all the stuff about targets not being fair for all, and as said previously DTL is not fair for all either. As PhilR rightly said, it is a random game, it's part of the fun! As for the old ABT or the new? Well as an old git I liked the old one better than the new version, the hard  45's were killers at times and it was indeed used by many as a stepping stone to UT and/or OT. When I first moved from DTL to the faster stuff, the only fast stuff in the area was ABT, however it was and still is, a very demanding game in its own right. So if people don't like it because it's not fair, fine.....go shoot OT, that's fair!

 

[jwpzx9r]

"ABT is not and never was an easy shoot!"

That point is not and has not ever been questioned!

 

[Les53]

"ABT is not and never was an easy shoot!"

That point is not and has not ever been questioned!

No John, we who shoot it know it. However there are some unkind souls out there who almost scoff at ABT as being a sort of soft option to UT and/or OT.  I made that comment in reference to the point in the original post regarding something to do with ABT being for failed OT shooters, I think PhilR also picked up on it John! There really are some people out there that feel that OT is for the elite and that ABT shooters are almost shooting it because they cannot hack OT. :smile:

 

[ips]

Abt potential for 25 different targets. Ot 15 targets 10 of which shot twice.

No point just saying

 

[Les53]

Abt potential for 25 different targets. Ot 15 targets 10 of which shot twice.

No point just saying

Ian I used to love those low left and right 45 deg ABT birds, daisey cutters was the polite term, but other less polite terms were often in use too as you know! I just feel that the old ABT was more fun, nothing more than that really, I loved it. 

 

[ips]

Me too mate one meter was fun.

Still love it though.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Les I have never found the trap I shoot to be gradable in terms of target speed and angle because they all bring their own challenge. My only caveat for ABT is in the validity of scoring... nobody has shot the same targets it that simple. If people are happy to shoot that type of competition then that's fine but you cannot really compare scores. Ian earlier said that over two hundred targets there was a possibility of things evening out... you would have to shoot for a very very very long time before a situation would arise where even two of the six competitors would have shot exactly the same targets purely by chance. So I don't have issues with the difficulty of the discipline but its standing in a competitive sense very much so but those who enter do it on the understanding that it is not if you will equitable and fair enough it is their choice.

"Abt potential for 25 different targets. Ot 15 targets 10 of which shot twice."

Just to put that into perspective in a round of UT you never get the same target twice! You get 25 different targets... but everyone gets the same 25! But in addition to your potential for 25 different targets I will raise you the possibility that in a round of ABT there is also a possibility that two competitors could shoot two different sets of 25... in the same round!

 

[ips]

The op asks what can be changed in abt to get it back on track at least I think that was the question.

The fact that abt is random is a fact and that's that. It is what it is and many of us like it that way. Funny observation is that you often hear folk after a shoot discussing how unfair abt is but never ever those folk with an envelope or trophy in hand. !!!!

 

[jwpzx9r]

Ian anybody who enters a competition knowing the rules there of has no good reason to complain only an idiot would!

 

[PhilR]

Neither FFBT or FFT, the two French clay shooting governing bodies, support the ABT discipline in France so what exactly are you shooting there? Is there any relevance to ABT that is shot in the UK and ROI?

 

[balltrap]

Am i right in saying ABT was first started in France when they shot balls of glass filled with feathers !

and was never started as a poor mans OT

 

[ips]

Sounds right to me dave. In fact pre dates ot by a long way. Ot probably devised to stop the car park whingers

 

[jwpzx9r]

I do not shoot ABT Phil only UT and OT. There is another trap discipline that is shot at small clubs here and that is Fosse American it is similar in concept to ABT. I think the angles are the same but is very different in that the targets all have the same trajectory. The speed of the targets is similar to a fast UT target but is of course constant. You shoot a lot in France you will know that UT is the top trap followed by OT. Clubs here are owned by the members so although there are quite a few with OT such a set up is expensive and requires constant maintenance of 15 traps and a bit more space. The clubs I shoot at in summer and winter have UT and OT.

Off at a slight tangent. At the weekend I was talking with two French shooters who, like yourself, shoot in international events. They are scathing of the grounds that are used for such events in France! For example the UT Euros at Ychoux they think that the ground whilst functional is not acceptable in other respects, similarly with the ground being used for the DTL comp at Cestas. Both said that France had to take a lead from the likes of Spain and Italy ( Granada and lonato ?) where the grounds used for big events are super according to both. We did agree though that at club level shooters in France are getting a good deal for what they pay the average for a round of UT or OT is €3.50 which is a good bit less than £3. Be good to get your take on that because you will have no doubt shot these grounds before.

edit

Also you must understand that France is a huge country so different regions may have different preferences for what they shoot in Aquitaine it is very heavily weighted to UT.

 

[balltrap]

In fact i think they made OT because ABT was to hard to have as a international discipline, as for how hard your round was, you pay your money and put your head down if you got hard targets and shot well the personal reward is satisfying  ! 

 

[jwpzx9r]

Sounds right to me dave. In fact pre dates ot by a long way. Ot probably devised to stop the car park whingers

OT ,as the name suggests, was devised or adopted for Olympic competition.

 

[ips]

Correct My Post Was Of Course Void Of A Smiley Thing

Edit

Just noticed it did have one

 

[ips]

Ps

As balltrap says abt way to hard for international as the french having been severely beaten by the English would complain they had all hard targets then blockade all the ports with there fourty year old tractors thus starting a huge global shortage of croissants