The future of ABT

[ips]

Apart from anything else how come you pay a ground to work for them ?

 

[paul b]

I say again the best way to attract people to abt is don't make them ref. I have heard time and time again from many dtl and indeed past abt shooters that it's the primary reason for not shooting it.

I agree,refing is a real turn off especialy when there a lot of very serious sorts giving you daggers when you f*ck up and not even getting paid for it.Just my opinion but if everyone shot all layouts one after another then folk wouldn't have to be there all day,this has caused esp shooters to stay away from fitasc sporting.

 

[balltrap]

I believe the US version of abt is refered to as wobble trap. Charlie out of curiosity what speed and angles is your version ?

I think they call it wobble trap because most of the US shooters are over weight ! :laugh:

 

[PhilR]

I agree,refing is a real turn off especialy when there a lot of very serious sorts giving you daggers when you f*ck up and not even getting paid for it.Just my opinion but if everyone shot all layouts one after another then folk wouldn't have to be there all day,this has caused esp shooters to stay away from fitasc sporting.

I don't want to shoot straight through like DTL, Skeet and ESP shooters do so they can clear off to another shoot.  I'm quite happy to referee and quite frankly having seen, unfortunately at first hand, the 'qualified' referees I'd rather stick to shooters doing it.

 

[ips]

With respect phil were old school and don't know any different but many are put off specifically because they do not want to ref. Of that I am absolutely sure.

 

[jwpzx9r]

You have to ref down here or you are not in the comp! Our regional UT championship (100 targets) is being held at our club this year we have two Fosse available the comp starts at 9am sharp and normally we can cope with about 90 shooters for the day but it will be held over two days because we expect about 200 or so to shoot!

 

[ips]

Let's be clear I don't mind most seasoned shooters don't mind but my point is many are put off trying it because of having too. The op asked what could be done to attract more. No need to ref will. End of.

 

[PhilR]

Well this is the 68th post and no peep from the OP, so no value added from that quarter.

 

[Sian]

Has anyone else tried it gun down, its a lot of fun  :girlcrazy:

 

[ips]

Yes Phil

Strange to post and not reply.

 

[Mutley]

I have had numerous people say they would shoot if they didnt have to ref,  I would rather ref than have someone who doesnt really care about if its correct or not doing it.

Its like saying I will drive as long as I dont have to get out and fuel up etc,    if they really want to play the game they will ref. reffing at shoots in Italy livens you up, especially when you cant fluently speak the lingo, but its ref or lose targets.

On the subject of shooting straight through, no definitley not, it doesnt give you time to sort yourself out between lines, at least an hour if possible to regain composure and rest the eyes.

But I'm old school, should be collar and tie as well not track suits..... :sarcastic:

 

[iainspecialboy]

Well, my two pennies worth. I like ABT but I won't shoot fast trap if I have to ref. been there, done that, never again. If I'm paying my money to shoot a comp then I expect qualified refs to be provided by the ground. That's what happens in sporting, skeet and DTL. It even happens in the Olympics and world cups. I also think it would help if it was shot straight through, maybe not for majors but for normal registered comps. If it's new shooters you are trying to attract then make it easier for them to get started, not by the difficulty of the targets but by letting them concentrate on shooting.

That is just my opinion but I seem to fall in the category of the type of person you are trying to attract, ( almost middle aged, no kids, no mortgage), rather than an established fast trap shooter. For now I'll stick to DTL.

 

[ips]

There you go I rest my case.

Very few would ref given the choice including me, I am there to shoot not work for free. When I finish a line my head is mashed I just want to relax and try to stay calm not concentrate on someone else shooting.

This is a very simple thing to implement and WILL attract new shooters. There is no doubt about it in my mind.

 

[Les53]

There you go I rest my case.

Very few would ref given the choice including me, I am there to shoot not work for free. When I finish a line my head is mashed I just want to relax and try to stay calm not concentrate on someone else shooting.

This is a very simple thing to implement and WILL attract new shooters. There is no doubt about it in my mind.

I don't like the ref bit either Ian, I don't like shooting 100 back to back either, not that I've done it many times! As for attracting new shooters, well that's another matter. I think that possibly the old ABT with it's slightly slower birds but wider angles, was possibly easier for the skeet and sporting guys to get to grips with. I did once know one or two that got hooked on it. These days it seems as though they try it and most never have a second go at it, much the same as OT. But I guess nobody really knows the reason Ian, but any sort of fast trap seems to be less well attended, well it seems like that down here,not that we have a huge choice of venues,  how about up your way?

 

[ips]

Same thing les very few abt venues even fewer ot and fewer still registered. You and I said a few years ago we would all be shooting straw bailer within ten years. Seems that our prediction could unfortunately be correct. Paul120 balltrap Mutley and myself shoot a local ground very good very hard abt quite well attended AND you don't have to ref !!!

 

[Les53]

Same thing les very few abt venues even fewer ot and fewer still registered. You and I said a few years ago we would all be shooting straw bailer within ten years. Seems that our prediction could unfortunately be correct. Paul120 balltrap Mutley and myself shoot a local ground very good very hard abt quite well attended AND you don't have to ref !!!

Yes Ian, seems we said this years ago, so I think did Fred. I really hope some of his other predictions don't come true though, but he has a knack of seeing the future does Fred!!! At the moment my nearest ball trap is up at Cheddar, about 1.5hrs away, we have no registered trap shooting left in the county, only one non registered DTL layout which we hope will be completed within the next month. People just don't seem drawn towards trap these days, well not in this country anyway! A very sad state of affairs indeed.  :fie:

 

[Les53]

Sorry to jump in on a Trap Shooting thread, but something Les just said made me want to post this.

As a Sporting only shooter who has had the odd go at various forms of Trap (and Skeet), the reason (and this may be purely personal) that I haven't taken up Trap or Skeet more regularly is that once you have shot it, all you can do is shoot the same thing again, even if you travel elsewhere. That may be over simplifying things, but each and every Sporting shoot I attend will have a totally different layout and targets, and the variation I have shot over the years is what floats my boat.

I won't say that I find any type of shooting boring, but I cannot imagine shooting the same layout and sequence, week in week out. To me it shows there are 2 types of shooter (and vive la difference), those that crave variation and a new challenge, and those that want to master one specific task.

From a personal point of view again, I know I could never master Trap to the degree where I would be happy, it's way too technical, but shooting Sporting if you fluff it up occasionally that's just the rub of the green, the next shoot will be more "your sort of targets". A slightly lower score than normal in Sporting is expected occasionally, but in Trap it's the end of the world, or at least time to change gun/cartridge/technique.

I know many Sporting shooters who think the same way, and that's why not many confirmed Hedge Monkeys will change fully to Trap or Skeet, coupled of course with the greater availability of Sporting shoots, and subsequent difficulty in finding serious Trap or Skeet layouts. 

Until I met Ips I had never met anyone who only shot Trap. Plenty of others dabbled across the borders, some using other disciplines for practice for their chosen speciality, and I find that so weird. (Being so focussed I mean, not Ips!)

Just my thoughts from the muddy side of the hedge!  :biggrin:

Well that's interesting Mike and probably correct too. I guess trap shooters do get the same targets (sort of ) in each place they shoot, however background, windage, light and a host of other things can play tricks on the brain. As a trap only shooter, like IPS, I/we see the fun in not knowing exactly where our targets will go, other than that they will be in retreat and will normally be shot instinctively! With sporting and with skeet you know exactly where the target will come from and where it will go, no matter which stand/peg you are on, you will know. Sporting shooters think about how much lead to give targets and carefully measure it out, trap, especially fast trap, is more reflex/instinct based I guess.

I guess trap almost demands a different kind of mind set, or as some would say, leave the brain in the clubhouse. I would think that sporting is more accessible to the majority of people, due to there being more places to shoot it and more people who coach it too. I think most people start clay shooting with a coach or tutor who shows them the basics of shooting, this often includes how to shoot various sorts of  targets, not all places that teach shotgun have trap or skeet facilities, so perhaps many get shown sporting and don't see the need to even seek out a trap layout! 

Anyway Mike, it wouldf be a funny old world if we all liked the same thing!  :biggrin:

 

[balltrap]

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[ips]

Not wishing to start another trap v sporting BUT I have never understood the attraction of shooting simulated game with no pre set scheme or settings. I enjoyed my go with PhilS but I don't consider it for me it just seems to add hoc.

No offence intended.

 

[RobertBeard]

Ian What do you mean by pre set scheme or settings?