ips
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Don't look at the barrel!
- Thread starter AW13
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ips
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true
shooting game you sometimes have no time you just shoot, and you have no idea about bead or barell or poi. Hand eye co- ordination
chippy
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This... It reinforces the statement that the height of the comb does not effect the POI ... if you know where your gun shoots. I was shooting earlier last year and a very good shot tried my gun. My Perazzi's stock length and comb height were way different to his ... he missed the first two targets and then knew where the gun was shooting and shot the next 23. If you never look at the gun then the comb cannot change anything just my take though.
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balltrap
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AW13
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balltrap
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To put it another way if you take your gun and for what ever reason raise the comb height by say 5mm... when you shoulder the gun the next time the gun is still shooting in exactly the same place as it did before you changed the comb... what you see in relation to the gun has changed though but the gun is pointing in exactly the same place.
balltrap
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No it will shoot higher................but 5mm at trap will not make much difference i think as most targets are missed behind also depends on your gun swing speed
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AW13
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Confused - 90% of my shooting is sporting, my scores are not 90% - wish they were though
balltrap
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No sorry I have to disagree the height of the comb will not alter where the gun is pointing in any way. What you see from the change of comb height is what you are referring to. Think about it.... put the gun in a vice and then raise the comb the gun is still pointing in exactly the same place. It is no different when you put it to your shoulder it still points in the exact same place even when you move it everything in terms of the geometry of the gun and your shoulder is exactly the same BUT what you see is different because your head is in a different position. The gun is still pointing in exactly the same place though so to be able to hit the target you must change the point in time when you squeeze the trigger. This takse a bit of thought but the only thing changing is the position of your head the gun remains in exactly the same position. If the gun does not stay in the same position then you have not only changed the comb height but somehow or other the fit of the gun in your shoulder... which completely negates the idea of making small changes in comb height.
Well from a non technical shooter, all I know is that things go wrong if I look at my bead or the barrels and they go better if I look at the clay. I was taught to look at the clay and that my barrels will come up to where they should be. Raising my comb has made the experience of shooting a more comfortable, more hits experience for me and was definitely a good move for me.
AW13, either Ballbag is thick or he's failing at being a comedian...I suspect both!!!
I assumed you were a sporting shooter, just wanted to make sure before I advise you to COMPLETELY IGNORE the two old trap shooting chumps...they are one trick ponies, trap shooters who only require ONE method to shoot clays. Swing through...go to hold point, call pull, see the clay, go after clay, shoot at clay as you pass through its line with a moving gun, take another shot at clay if it doesn't break first shot. Repeat another 99 times, trying not to fall asleep with boredom!!!
They know nothing of shooting clays that need a different amount of lead during every part of its flight, loopers, rabbits, dropping crossers, tower birds, midi's, battues are all alian concepts to them. The need for visibility above the rib is lost on them. Advise on shooting sporting should never be trusted from them. They are like cyclists in a F1 race when it comes to sporting. Half of them go mad shooting trap, the other half shoot trap because the are mad...there are odd ones who escape from a lifetime trap shooting with their sanity, trust me, these two are beyond help!!!
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To be fair Darkside sporting is not without its snooze quotient. I agree with some of what you have said above but as a trap shooter, who is not at all mad, I will rise to the fly and defend it. For example I shot ESP one back home in Scotland and will say it was a straw baler but every stand was a 5x repetition of exactly the same two presented targets ??? You knew exactly what was coming before you went into the cagemebobthingy... you had just stood and watched the five before you shoot exactly the same set of targets over and over again... and you are telling me that trap is boring and repetitive. You may not like it but as you know in UT for example you never get the same target twice and you don't know what is coming next. The aim of trap shooting is to break 25 targets every round... there are very, very few shooters who can do that. In sporting it may be possible for a shooter to have a bad stand and miss say three targets... and still be effectively in the competition... in trap shooting miss three in any round and your competition is over, even in a 200 target event. So in summary I do agree that you get a much more widely varied presentation of targets in sporting but the fact is the targets are repetitive and there is no mystery as to what you are about to shoot. Just my view of it each to their own and all that. I don't put sporting down I don't expect sporting shooters to put trap down the are two different disciplines with totally different approaches required.
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I don't shoot straw balers, 10 stands is ok, 12 stands much better, 15 stands at the likes of 2016 English Open sporting at Hodnet could never be repetitive!!!!
FITASC sporting is king, the variation and variety of targets on a good FITASC shoot is fantastic!!!
Trap has 5 stands and 5 hold points even over a 200 bird comp...with only one method and one presentation to shoot, swing through, shoot at it as you pass!!! Trap is a game of 'perfect', a head game of not missing rather than a challenge of hitting...
Mutley
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Geometry, Rennys angle... Ever heard of them?
The gun should be set so that it shoots where you are looking, no point in making it a guessing game also if you cannot see it you cannot shoot it.
And before I get called an old fart of a trap shooter, I shot sporting and game at a good level for 10 -15 years before I ever shot OT, and still shoot it for a laugh.
I make stocks and fit guns for a living, so if you came to me for a sporting stock I would be looking at you seeing the target effectivley sat so that in an imaginery picture you had half to the full clay edge on view on the end of the gun, so a 10p maybe 2 would be ideal height for the comb.
On a trap gun I would first look at how good your eyesight was and how quick you pick the target up, if you are young with good eyesight and reactions you can get away with a higher comb, as the target is still definitley on the rise when you take your first shot, on OT this should be in the 25-35m zone second shot would be nailed in the 45m range so in a time frame you are looking at first shot in about 1 second or less, second shot in 1.5 seconds, if you let the target out to the 50+ m you are relying on 50%luck. I know that some of the shooters on the circuit are shooting a gun that shoots 2m above POA at 25m.
If you are of poorer sigjht or reactions (read old fart like me), you need a lower POI because the target has gone further before you have locked on to it, so you need a gun that has a POA nearer to the POI.
So I would start with a £1 coin at the breech end and just see the bead, this will give you a good International trap gun, if you pick the target up quicker add coins up to 3, but this will mean you are set for fast rising targets.
A high rib gives you a quicker view of the target as the barrels are removed from blocking your view, the gun is set in just the same way.
Rennys angle is a setting used by Rebato Lamera, it is the geometric angle between the barrel POA, where you are looking and where the head/eye are on the gun, this is a thing you find for yourself, some people can look at the exit ramp on an OT layout with the gun on the mark and shoot them quick, as say, Marco Venturini does, others put the gun on the front of the ramp and look at the 20+m region and still shoot them very quick, this is the angle that your sight and brain work best at to hit the target easily.
If you know where your gun shoots you can get away with most things, or if you know what you need for a sight picture you can shoot any gun as John says, I ended up borrowing a couple of guns on lines last year due to my browning being tempremental, they didnt fit, but by shuffling the head and even having my thumb ontop of the comb to make it fit I shot a couple of 23's on UT.
Its what works for you, also what gun you have, say you shoot a Beretta or Perazzi and know your measurements then stick them on a Miroku or Browning, you have the same sight picture but you will struggle on first barrel, as they shoot higher on the bottom barrel than most shallow actioned guns.
So there is a multitude of things to look at, apart from the bead and the gun, if it fits you should not even be seeing the gun or bead, just locked onto the target with your eyes....
The gun should be set so that it shoots where you are looking, no point in making it a guessing game also if you cannot see it you cannot shoot it.
And before I get called an old fart of a trap shooter, I shot sporting and game at a good level for 10 -15 years before I ever shot OT, and still shoot it for a laugh.
I make stocks and fit guns for a living, so if you came to me for a sporting stock I would be looking at you seeing the target effectivley sat so that in an imaginery picture you had half to the full clay edge on view on the end of the gun, so a 10p maybe 2 would be ideal height for the comb.
On a trap gun I would first look at how good your eyesight was and how quick you pick the target up, if you are young with good eyesight and reactions you can get away with a higher comb, as the target is still definitley on the rise when you take your first shot, on OT this should be in the 25-35m zone second shot would be nailed in the 45m range so in a time frame you are looking at first shot in about 1 second or less, second shot in 1.5 seconds, if you let the target out to the 50+ m you are relying on 50%luck. I know that some of the shooters on the circuit are shooting a gun that shoots 2m above POA at 25m.
If you are of poorer sigjht or reactions (read old fart like me), you need a lower POI because the target has gone further before you have locked on to it, so you need a gun that has a POA nearer to the POI.
So I would start with a £1 coin at the breech end and just see the bead, this will give you a good International trap gun, if you pick the target up quicker add coins up to 3, but this will mean you are set for fast rising targets.
A high rib gives you a quicker view of the target as the barrels are removed from blocking your view, the gun is set in just the same way.
Rennys angle is a setting used by Rebato Lamera, it is the geometric angle between the barrel POA, where you are looking and where the head/eye are on the gun, this is a thing you find for yourself, some people can look at the exit ramp on an OT layout with the gun on the mark and shoot them quick, as say, Marco Venturini does, others put the gun on the front of the ramp and look at the 20+m region and still shoot them very quick, this is the angle that your sight and brain work best at to hit the target easily.
If you know where your gun shoots you can get away with most things, or if you know what you need for a sight picture you can shoot any gun as John says, I ended up borrowing a couple of guns on lines last year due to my browning being tempremental, they didnt fit, but by shuffling the head and even having my thumb ontop of the comb to make it fit I shot a couple of 23's on UT.
Its what works for you, also what gun you have, say you shoot a Beretta or Perazzi and know your measurements then stick them on a Miroku or Browning, you have the same sight picture but you will struggle on first barrel, as they shoot higher on the bottom barrel than most shallow actioned guns.
So there is a multitude of things to look at, apart from the bead and the gun, if it fits you should not even be seeing the gun or bead, just locked onto the target with your eyes....
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