Don't look at the barrel!

[Darkside]

p.s. There is a degree of tongue in cheek in my posts...too lazy to put smileys in to show them!!!

Excellent post Mutley, wouldn't dream of calling you an old fart or anything else...but you wouldn't tell a sporting shooter, with the problem of looking at the gun, the cure was to lower to comb until they could only see a 10p width of rib...you understand that too low a comb brings a host of problems to a sporting shooter lite AW13 who asked for advise and who started this thread!!! 

 

[Hamster]

We all know you mustn't look at the bead or indeed the barrels themselves when you take the bead off but clearly it can be done either way, people have shot straights at every single discipline including ESP well before the fashion of taking the bead off came into our consciousness. If you think taking the bead off is somehow a magical and instant way of correcting what is ultimately YOUR OWN flaw in technique and understanding of how to shoot, you're mistaken. 

I personally find no bead to be an even bigger distraction as the barrels suddenly look huge in my peripheral vision  :mellow:  but I am certain that I could make the necessary adjustments/adaptations if needs be. Anyone who thinks we ONLY look at the clay for successful shooting is misguided and I don't care or scare how high up the food chain they are  , there is simply NO QUESTION that you must be aware of where the barrels are in order to make the necessary allowances to throw the cloud ahead of the clay  , whether you want to deceive yourself that you can do so without being aware of the barrels/bead is another thing - barrel/bead same thing in other words. The trick is to train your mind to ignore the urge to LOOK at either but maintain most of the true focus on the clay or it's PATH. 

I say so because I know beyond reasonable doubt that I personally do and can get away with switching focus from bead/barrel to clay for a nano second on certain presentations and I absolutely believe that if and when a device is invented that allows us to factually see whether the top shooters ONLY focus on the clay, much of the myth will be blown out of the picture. There are many presentations where successful shots can be executed by looking ahead of the clay itself i.e, the eyes focus is shared between the clay and a spot ahead of it on an unequal basis in favour of the sky.   

The bead/barrels are in your peripheral vision but they play a very active role in the sight picture, how else do you allow for sudden changes in a clay's flight path or allow for a jumping rabbit ? Denying that we have to see the barrels/bead is like claiming you could maintain the same average with invisible barrels. You can't. 

This is the urban equivalent of taking your bead off, looks cool and everyfing but the gun will still kill what you shoot at regardless. 

 

[ips]

I personally find no bead to be an even bigger distraction as the barrels suddenly look huge in my peripheral vision 

. 

this is exactly my point on my first post

 

[Hamster]

this is exactly my point on my first post

Too many people blame the bead when the fault lies elsewhere. 

 

[AW13]

There is also another factor for us less experienced shooters. It is confidence of the gun mount. I practice, i have a laser sight for the barrel and I often shoot a corner of the room or similar to check my instinctive mount vs where the gun is actually pointing and modestly i'm not too bad.

But when actually shooting i guess when I have more time on the shot I sometimes look away from the clay back to the gun to check my mount/alignment. I think that is a key issue to overcome.

I have also found comments above interesting in general but also specifically that you need a very short time to mount find the clay and shoot, seems a more instinctive approach, similar to my comment in the first post about snap shooting.

I'll be out practicing early next week where I will try and totally ignore the gun.

 

[ips]

you will work through it, like we all have to ?

 

[ips]

but you wouldn't tell a sporting shooter, with the problem of looking at the gun, the cure was to lower to comb until they could only see a 10p width of rib...you understand that too low a comb brings a host of problems to a sporting shooter lite AW13 who asked for advise and who started this thread!!! 

think you will find that he "may do" depending on other variables of course.

remember that advice / opinion given on a forum is usually one of many differing ones and it is ultimately up to the OP to try, adapt or throw away. I try to word my posts carefully by using terms such as "may" or "Imo" they are purely my take on things the same as yours or anyone else's and I don't believe I ever say my way or my thoughts are gospel they are a personal view learnt from my own experience.

QUOTE

I make stocks and fit guns for a living, so if you came to me for a sporting stock I would be looking at you seeing the target effectivley sat so that in an imaginery picture you had half to the full clay edge on view on the end of the gun, so a 10p maybe 2 would be ideal height for the comb

UNQUOTE

 

[Hamster]

There is also another factor for us less experienced shooters. It is confidence of the gun mount. I practice, i have a laser sight for the barrel and I often shoot a corner of the room or similar to check my instinctive mount vs where the gun is actually pointing and modestly i'm not too bad.

But when actually shooting i guess when I have more time on the shot I sometimes look away from the clay back to the gun to check my mount/alignment. I think that is a key issue to overcome.

I have also found comments above interesting in general but also specifically that you need a very short time to mount find the clay and shoot, seems a more instinctive approach, similar to my comment in the first post about snap shooting.

I'll be out practicing early next week where I will try and totally ignore the gun.

Snap shooting can be very effective at times but when you watch the better shooters they sometimes stay in the gun for quite a noticeable length of time before pulling the trigger so as always it's very much dependent on the presentation. Essentially though the better shots probably mount later and for a shorter period.

 

[Clynt]

It definitely works , but not everybody finds it easy, to get the grip of !!!!! ....you have got to know your gun is where it should be all the time? and with that in mind, gun fit is crucial , and you must commit to the shot and not dither ?

 

[balltrap]

Backside said .................................................. They know nothing of shooting clays that need a different amount of lead during every part of its flight, loopers, rabbits, dropping crossers, tower birds, midi's, battues are all alian concepts to them. The need for visibility above the rib is lost on them. Advise on shooting sporting should never be trusted from them. They are like cyclists in a F1 race when it comes to sporting. Half of them go mad shooting trap, the other half shoot trap because the are mad...there are odd ones who escape from a lifetime trap shooting with their sanity, trust me, these two are beyond help!!!

I wonder why the cpsa put me in AA in sporting then :angel:

 

[schmokinn]

I've been having lessons with a top coach and even he said to aim at the clay.

if you aim at the clay and its moving you will shoot where it was and miss?

 

[Skeet UK]

No sorry I have to disagree the height of the comb will not alter where the gun is pointing in any way. What you see from the change of comb height is what you are referring to. Think about it.... put the gun in a vice and then raise the comb the gun is still pointing in exactly the same place. It is no different when you put it to your shoulder it still points in the exact same place even when you move it everything in terms of the geometry of the gun and your shoulder is exactly the same BUT what you see is different because your head is in a different position. The gun is still pointing in exactly the same place though so to be able to hit the target you must change the point in time when you squeeze the trigger. This takse a bit of thought but the only thing changing is the position of your head the gun remains in exactly the same position. If the gun does not stay in the same position then you have not only changed the comb height but somehow or other the fit of the gun in your shoulder... which completely negates the idea of making small changes in comb height.

You are actually BOTH right.  What differs is your view point and I suspect, the way you mount your gun.

If you raise the comb of the gun, you have made the gun taller.  In order for you to mount the gun, either your face has to come up or the gun has to go down.

Back to your "gun in a vice"; you are of course correct, that clamping the stock and raising the comb, does not alter the position of the barrels.

But what if you clamp the comb, then adjust it?  The gun moves, so the barrels point to a different spot.

So, if you as a Trap Shooter, pre-mount your gun to the same spot in your shoulder - raising the comb means your head has to come up and you get a higher view over the gun/rib, but the barrels still point the same.

If a Sporting Shooter shoots gun down AND mounts the gun to the face first, before it comes to the shoulder (kinda does both at once really, but the face, is the height stop), then the head does not move, the butt of the gun moves down and so the barrels POI has changed - but you still get a higher view over the gun/rib.

If the same Sporting Shooter mounts to the shoulder, then brings the head down...the result is the same as that of the Trap Shooter.

However, in both (probably any) case, you still have to have a sense of where the gun shoots.

 

[schmokinn]

Its amazing that so may posts turn into a POI/POA  post and nobody ever agrees!

 

[ips]

ha, yes. We should have a comp to see how many posts on a totally unrelated topic it takes to get it round to a poi poa discussion. ?

 

[Wonko the Sane]

My coach gives me a written report of every lesson , and I quote " the lesson went well but you need to aim to improve"  I rest my case

EXCELLENT!!  Absolutely no argument here.

 

[westley]

true

shooting game you sometimes have no time you just shoot, and you have no idea about bead or barell or poi. Hand eye co- ordination

Yes, AND usually with a lot more success too !

 

[ips]

Backside said .................................................. They know nothing of shooting clays that need a different amount of lead during every part of its flight, loopers, rabbits, dropping crossers, tower birds, midi's, battues are all alian concepts to them. The need for visibility above the rib is lost on them. Advise on shooting sporting should never be trusted from them. They are like cyclists in a F1 race when it comes to sporting. Half of them go mad shooting trap, the other half shoot trap because the are mad...there are odd ones who escape from a lifetime trap shooting with their sanity, trust me, these two are beyond help!!!

I wonder why the cpsa put me in AA in sporting then :angel:

to be fare I think this was one of James tongue in cheek humorous posts, I certainly liked it ?

james

for the record I am cack at sporting BUT balltrap is a seriously good sporting shooter and in his day (about 1940) he could and did mix it with the best of them ?

 

[westley]

james

for the record I am cack at sporting BUT balltrap is a seriously good sporting shooter and in his day (about 1940) he could and did mix it with the best of them ?

Ah yes, I remember muzzle loaders too  !    :lol:

I'll be out practicing early next week where I will try and totally ignore the gun.

Yep, leave the gun at home, I ALWAYS hit more when I am watching, rather than shooting   !    :wacko:  

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Fascinating!  I notice that one or two have a hint of rationality and maybe enough schooling to understand some basic geometry and physiology but the rest           ........................................            make it easy to understand why so many struggle to shoot well.  Sort of the blind leading, etc.  Ah, well.

besta luck, folks

 

[westley]

Mutley old Chap, was RENNY not the Cafe owner in Allo Allo   ?

IRONIC,

R.I.P. Gordon Kaye.

Westley.