Guns with adjustable combs

[ips]

Wonko

for the record no one mentioned that flat rib = flat shooting.

just saying.

6" pattern centre above poa sounds pretty standard trap set up to me probably equates to 60 . 40 I would guess.

Am I right in thinking that your ata chaps like a very high poi I have heard talk of 100 % above ?

 

[ips]

Ian essentially the gun is mounted down into the pocket with an upward angled gun the head is then brought down onto the stock and then the gun is levelled  into the  hold position. It looks quite mechanical but I find it works for me... I could be very wrong but it may also take pitch out of the equation to some degree.... I could be wrong though on that one. Anyway I don't argue with Renato what ever he is actually saying

Ah that one. Quite a few top ot lads and lasses use that technique, as you say all a bit mechanical for my personal taste I am more of a chuck it up call for target kind of bloke but each to there own.

 

[jwpzx9r]

I'm just a humble sporting shooter and this Italian method is probably fine for Trap.

I seem to have upset the original thread good and proper now!

Rubbish the more opinions the better that is why we are here ! I read and then make my decision's on who I am going to believe and/ or have a bit of debate over the subject... its what forums are for and they would be absolutely nothing otherwise in my opinion. If people are all going to reply agreeing with the first post to a question count me out unless there is a definitive answer, and from what I can see on here its all opinions some better than others but none the less

edit and besides you are right I don't think that would be Ideal for a gun down discipline !

 

[ips]

Well said my old mate, cant be doing with folk who get all arsey when someone has a different opinion, thin skin has no room on forums if you want to join in and not sit in the corner just listening in. Also like threads that drift ...... ooh I think we just did that, I blame robert.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Wonko

for the record no one mentioned that flat rib = flat shooting.

just saying.

6" pattern centre above poa sounds pretty standard trap set up to me probably equates to 60 . 40 I would guess.

Am I right in thinking that your ata chaps like a very high poi I have heard talk of 100 % above ?

Sorry about that - aging brain and all

Yeah - I'm no innovator.  See target shoot it

Seems like the high shooting guns are still in favor but that's because of how they shoot - essentially trick shooting.  Hold the gun nearly at the height the target peaks, no vert movement on the gun required just move over to under the target and shoot, high pattern takes care of the rest.  I shot that way until I tried shooting something besides ATA and then had to actually learn how to shoot.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Subject drift hahahaha! I phoned my brother today for a chat about an old bike he had sold and we ended up talking about vintage woodworking chisels !!!! You can pick up some cracking old mortising chisels on ebay.fr for a reasonable price by the way, which is great if you have a use for them

 

[ips]

Vintage chissels !! ... you live in the fast lane mate that's for sure

 

[ips]

Sorry about that - aging brain and all

Yeah - I'm no innovator. See target shoot it

Seems like the high shooting guns are still in favor but that's because of how they shoot - essentially trick shooting. Hold the gun nearly at the height the target peaks, no vert movement on the gun required just move over to under the target and shoot, high pattern takes care of the rest. I shot that way until I tried shooting something besides ATA and then had to actually learn how to shoot.

this ata sounds riveting ... Not.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Vintage chissels !! ... you live in the fast lane mate that's for sure

Sigh yes sure do! I don't collect but do lament the fact that nowadays those hand crafted mortise joints in green oak roofing structures will now be made with an machine of some sort... mortiser or a mega plunge router. There is something about tools that may have been use a couple of hundered years ago to make the type of house I know find myself living in life and work was a lot tougher back then!

 

[ips]

Only teasing John i too appreciate good tools i have some old planes and stuff of my grand dads he was a master carpenter used to make the pullman train carriages. I think if was much better than his lack of 4 fingers would indicate. I kind of followed in his footsteps as similar craft job up to 21 yrs old then i stopped when my left thumb argued with a radial arm saw and lost, didn't fancy a trigger finger going next.

 

[jwpzx9r]

No problem Ian I was pretty certain it was only a wind up It is my brother who is an avid collector of tools both old and new... now due to age and lack of space he is starting a grand sell off!

I really do admire those who have a real skill and craft though ! I try very hard at wood working and other skills in my house but while I have had a lot of people tell me that they have seen jobs done by supposed skilled tradesmen that are not as good as what I have done really skilled workers produce something that can only be admired. That most definitely includes work done by fine gun makers, cabinet makers and those who make very fine time pieces and the like. Thumbs and power saws do not make good bed fellows ... I have had some very close things many due to carelessness on my part. The other day I almost nailed my thumb to a purlin with a pneumatic nailer forgot I had changed to a longer nail length and it went through the wood and grazed my thumb....tw*t!

 

[ips]

ouch,

i believe the best way to learn anything is to do it so keep up the diy

 

[Les53]

I much prefer GSI myself.....get someone in!!!!

 

[jwpzx9r]

Interesting take on changing comb height by Alan Rhone.

"You have uncovered one of the great myths of shotgunning - that comb height changes point of impact, it doesn't, it changes line of sight. Changing where you are looking may or may not affect where the gun shoots, it all depends on the way you shoot. If you aim the gun using the front bead like a rifle front sight then you will find that a high comb equals a high shot placement. However, if you look over the gun and use the rib as a subconscious aiming aid, you will find that the height of the comb makes little difference unless it is so low that you lift your head to see over the rib. In this case a low comb can make you shoot high. Trust me on this, changing comb height does not change point of impact.
Changing the pitch will not make any difference to the point of impact either. Pitch affects comfort and how easily you can mount the gun. I have carried out many tests using guns with adjustable pitch and I can tell you that changing from extreme down to extreme up-pitch does not move the point of impact at all but it certainly makes a big difference to recoil."

Reflecting my opinion but this is not posted to reopen the debate

 

[ips]

Urgh

Apart from the bit about pitch which i never touched on i think you will find that is exactly what i said.

Just saying

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Interesting take on changing comb height by Alan Rhone.

"You have uncovered one of the great myths of shotgunning - that comb height changes point of impact, it doesn't, it changes line of sight. Changing where you are looking may or may not affect where the gun shoots, it all depends on the way you shoot. If you aim the gun using the front bead like a rifle front sight then you will find that a high comb equals a high shot placement. However, if you look over the gun and use the rib as a subconscious aiming aid, you will find that the height of the comb makes little difference unless it is so low that you lift your head to see over the rib. In this case a low comb can make you shoot high. Trust me on this, changing comb height does not change point of impact.

Changing the pitch will not make any difference to the point of impact either. Pitch affects comfort and how easily you can mount the gun. I have carried out many tests using guns with adjustable pitch and I can tell you that changing from extreme down to extreme up-pitch does not move the point of impact at all but it certainly makes a big difference to recoil."

Reflecting my opinion but this is not posted to reopen the debate

I can go with this 100%

And.......have tested it......how I hear you ask.....?

With the Evocomp.

I have experimented all year with the questions in my head of 'what happens if......?'

I have had the pitch from one extreme to another..........no difference to performance .....only difference is in added comfort when the shot is fired....and allows you to find the most comfortable position to the shape of your body.

I have also (under different experiment) shot the comb at different heights.......... I was convinced that this would make a difference.......but in reality......again......it is all in the way you relax down and shoot......the purpose is to allow your head to come naturally and comfortably down on the stock......(unless you are too low as Alan says). You simply get used to a different line of sight and after shooting it for several shots you adjust.

Same also for the high or low gun mount........if you repeat each time you get used to what ever you have......however of course again it is all about comfort. And the more that all the comfort points come together....the better and relaxed you feel....and the better you shoot.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Nic, Ian I am not trying to argue my case simply try to understand what is being said... but still argue a wee bit and I think Nic has hit on my point ... not pun intended. Perhaps I am thinking about things in totally the wrong way but to me at least its not so much that the attitude of the gun has changed, in my mind it has not, however what a shooter sees if they use rib and bead in conjunction with the target has. It may sound stupid and be splitting hairs but to me the gun stays the same and the shooter sees things differently because his eye is higher off the line of the barrels, if the shooter has to shot lower to hit the target it is not because it is actually pointing at a different angle it is because he or she is seeing the target differently than before, I must add I am assuming the comb is parallel to the line of the barrels. Oww my brain is beginning to fry, is this situation just a play on words and / or concept 

Well I ain't gonna lie down either Ian could what I have said be any different to what Alan said?

 

[jwpzx9r]

I was thinking about another thread a week or so ago on the general form about this very topic. My view then was that raising the comb does not necessarily raise POI but it does raise the eye over the rib. My point was that the sight picture will change and because of this you , after a few shots, factor the change in the guns geometry. In effect what I am saying is the guns POI only changes if you continue to shoot it as you did before you changed the position of the comb. That is why I said I can use a adjustable comb to change the sight picture. If raise the comb the gun will shoot higher if I don't adjust my shooting but that was the reason I did it was to get that effect ie. see more of the target when taking the shot... I have changed my sight picture.

I know I am probably talking rot but here goes anyway. I just don't get idea the POI/A changing when raising or lowering the comb. If I mount my gun the same way every time on the same part of my shoulder then all that is changing is the position of my eye over the rib, the gun still is pointing in exactly the same place, what I see has changed not where the gun is pointing. Now I say this from the point of a gun mounted before shooting so I do know that the gun hits the same spot on my shoulder and then I bring my head down onto the comb. Another very important thing from my point of view anyway is you do not aim a shotgun, you point it at a region of sky hoping to intercept the flying object. To hit the target you use eyes and awareness of space and senses to as it were calculate / estimate where this area is you want to shoot in order to do it then shoot at that bit of space. If you give the same gun to two different people and ask them to hit a target they will, assuming they are of different stature ,  both point the gun differently to hit the target ... but that is nothing to do with the gun it is the same. In other words a shotgun does not have a POI/A people make it do what it does.

Offt  there is a pile to chew on ... fire away!

Or here?

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Can I clarify that I was agreeing with Alan and not involved in a conversation with jwp.......just saying.

 

[ips]

You are correct John i am correct Nicola is correct Alan is correct. We all explained it differently that's all.

Cheers