How much do you pay for 100ESP comp?

[Mr Potter]

To be fair Andy, Catton Hall is not just a clay ground - it's effectively an activity centre - with quad biking, archery, paint balling, falconry centre, to name but a few of the activities they do on top of clay shooting. I suspect this allows them to subsidise the clay side of their business.

Added to that, this discussion is essentially one about 'perceived value', so it's an entirely subjective topic - meaning you're never gonna get all the people to agree on any one price: your 'expensive' or 'over the odds' to someone else might be perfectly acceptable and inexpensive. Even the £45 in the opening post, to some, might be considered value for money; although not having shot the ground and paid £45 for the privilege, I can't say. And as you say, there are other influencing factors: distance to travel, fuel costs, etc. And some grounds are so remote that they are not on the national power grid and have to run off generators (so another cost in fuel for the ground to power their site). So-called, 'straw bale' sites will always look inexpensive when compared to the prices you pay to shoot Hodnet and other sites - but then again, you don't get half the amenities (or the associated costs of running the place) that you do at these higher-end grounds.

And whilst I do like Catton Hall (certainly got some challenging birds and varied terrain), in the twice I've been there to shoot, 3 months apart, the birds had not been changed. And the second time we had to skip three stands (although we came back later when they were free) whilst instructors put families or stag parties through their paces - something you don't get at Worsley as, as you know, they have a roped-off area specifically for 'Have-a-Go' days, stag dos and learners. Mind you, that's more of a mere inconvenience than a gripe, and we will be back at Catton in the not too distant.

L S & B,

Think you are confusing affordability and value for money, to someone like Roman Abramovitch £10,000 for a 100 bird entry would be perfectly affordable whereas a fiver would be a deal breaker to someone on the minimum wage and a family to feed.

Value for money is the same if you're a pauper or a millionaire.

Doubt if Catton Hall subsidise their clay shooting, not only are they £6 cheaper for a 100 bird registered comp but a full £8 cheaper for 110 bird practice.  Phil might be right in that they won't (as far as we aware) be paying rent on the land but people don't last long if they subsidise part of their business.  Also they must be aware, actually I know they are aware, of what other grounds are charging for both comps & practice and they haven't found it necessary to raise their prices so they must be happy that they are getting it right.

This shouldn't become a Catton v Worsley issue, both have their merits and never forget it costs just a much to put on poor targets as it does those of championship standard.  However, between the two, there is only one winner in the value for money stakes.

Mr Potter 

 

[Tim]

Makes the £29 I paid for B/O at Mid-Norfolk reg. last December look very reasonable.  I couldn't care less what the H/G prize money is as I ain't never gonna win it!  Hence birds only for me.  Incidently High Lodge have just put their practice clay cost up to 29p as of the 1st of March and talking to John Bidwell last Saturday he said its been a real tough couple of months and they've had clay price increases that they haven't passed on.

Tim

 

[Hamster]

Some people stump up thousands of pounds on guns, then whine about 3 or 4 quid to shoot them.  Jesus, take up tiddlywinks.

The reason we moan about shell and entries prices as opposed to the cost of guns is that you can't sell empties or second hand score sheets. :slow:

 

[teepee1234]

The reason we moan about shell and entries prices as opposed to the cost of guns is that you can't sell empties or second hand score sheets. :slow:

I guess some people aren't happy unless they can find something to moan about.  If what you say is right Hammy, my comment stands - take up a hobby that doesn't cost so much.

I wasn't commenting on the cost of guns, more the illogical emotion exhibited over having to spend an extra few quid, when the original expense - the purchase of the tool without which we couldn't play, is massive by comparison.  It's like buying a racing car, then bitching because the following year, the tyres cost a few quid more.

 

[Hamster]

It was a joke  :smile:   , you're right of course but £45 is still silly.

 

[Emmsy]

I guess some people aren't happy unless they can find something to moan about.  If what you say is right Hammy, my comment stands - take up a hobby that doesn't cost so much.

I wasn't commenting on the cost of guns, more the illogical emotion exhibited over having to spend an extra few quid, when the original expense - the purchase of the tool without which we couldn't play, is massive by comparison.  It's like buying a racing car, then bitching because the following year, the tyres cost a few quid more.

the cost of guns is fairly pointless, you can buy a s/h gun and in 5-10 years they have barely depreciated or in some cases even made money

 

[teepee1234]

I give up.  A pointless exercise.  :banghead:

 

[philmoss]

I am currently paying £36 for registered 100ESP at Barrow Heath. Seems about right to me. Usually approx 130/140 entries. Nice ground and excellent targets even if usually a bit tough for my current skill level. But hey, its all about the challenge right?

If I can't hit 'em and others can, what is the answer . . . . . . . . . . yup you got it, I've just got to learn to shoot better, and you don't do that by constantly blitzing easy layouts.

I have shot Auchterhouse a couple of times in the Scottish National Skeet Championship (this year it is back at Morton). I really like both grounds but we are even charged £45 for 100 reg Skeet !!!!

Its just something we accept for a great weekend away, and we are up there again this year (seventh year in a row) but wouldn't be happy paying that sort of money every

Malc,

The current entry fee for 100 ESP reg is £35 comp, the additional £1 was for Essex county funds at the recent county selection event.

Mr Potter,

Never a truer word said regarding it costs no more to put on a good round then a poor one !!! 

 

[Salopian]

It is very difficult to actually determine a true cost for 100 registered Sporting because of the various factors. Many grounds charge £35 for competition, use untrained referees and offer poor prize fund and poor facilities. Others have superb facilities, clean toilets, good food, good prize fund.

Ten stands is a bit boring, 12 or 14 much better, but of course greater expense and requires more space.

My gripe is referees who are being paid (maybe poorly) but have no interest, don't pay attention, and alter the score upon demand. They do not realise how they are influencing the pay out of prize money.

 Can I just say thank you to the individuals who are up at first light on a Sunday morning setting up targets for my enjoyment and then packing away whilst I am in a warm pub having lunch. Thank you Ladies and Gentlemen. 

 

[webber]

Malc,

The current entry fee for 100 ESP reg is £35 comp, the additional £1 was for Essex county funds at the recent county selection event.

Mr Potter,

Never a truer word said regarding it costs no more to put on a good round then a poor one !!! 

Thats not strictly true.

Registered competition courses at Worsley are set by a top class champion shooter whos services are bought in for the job.  Thus producing top quality competition shoots appreciated by many.

 I also know that the price of clays have recently risen, and colours generally cost more than blacks.

There are many cost elements which go towards the cost of a thrown clay.  It is nieve in the extreme to assume or suggest that because ground A can put on a registered competition for twenty odd quid that all grounds should or even could follow suit.

webber

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Grounds are commercial enterprises and can put their own value on what they deliver.......and so they should be able to. They do not owe anyone anything. They provide a service.......without them you would not be shooting anything. Fact.

Why do shooters always moan (mainly sportistaaaaasss)?

If it is not the price of the round, it is the targets....if its not the targets, its the breakfast or the parking, or guns over shoulders etc etc.

This is supposed to be a sport, all this moaning cannot make it toooooo enjoyable for you.

Like people have mentioned many times before this is a pricey sport for all the previously stated reasons.....live with it or take up cards. :smile:

Simples

 

[Chard]

L S & B,

Think you are confusing affordability and value for money, to someone like Roman Abramovitch £10,000 for a 100 bird entry would be perfectly affordable whereas a fiver would be a deal breaker to someone on the minimum wage and a family to feed.

Value for money is the same if you're a pauper or a millionaire.

Doubt if Catton Hall subsidise their clay shooting, not only are they £6 cheaper for a 100 bird registered comp but a full £8 cheaper for 110 bird practice.  Phil might be right in that they won't (as far as we aware) be paying rent on the land but people don't last long if they subsidise part of their business.  Also they must be aware, actually I know they are aware, of what other grounds are charging for both comps & practice and they haven't found it necessary to raise their prices so they must be happy that they are getting it right.

This shouldn't become a Catton v Worsley issue, both have their merits and never forget it costs just a much to put on poor targets as it does those of championship standard.  However, between the two, there is only one winner in the value for money stakes.

Mr Potter 

Agreed.

I always said that when I get to be a millionaire :drool: I will not let greaseballs rip me off, just because I've got a few quid.

This is because I'm not a complete cock. I would still look for value and wouldn't pay over the odds just because I had it. Everything has a "right" price and if someone is trying to overcharge me, just because I had a few bob, I would take that as a personal insult and tell them to sling their hook.

Huzzah!

 

[Will Hewland]

Two ways of looking at having a lot of money. 'Wahoo, sod it, treat it like today is my last, or that I won it on the lottery' or 'the reason I have a few quid is that I didn't spend the last 10/20 years wasting it and don't feel like starting now'.

I know folk in both camps. It's an attitude choice.

Personally, I don't mind spending, but I hate wasting.

 

[Lock Stock & Barrel]

So we're back to where we came in: the subjectivity of perceived value.

 

[ips]

I like spending money i have earned. Never seen the point or enjoyment of spending money i Havent got ?

I live by the following which was also what i named my last two boats "its only money"

 

[clayclouter]

We all vote with our feet/car in the end, like customers in other pursuits you go where the majority percieve there is value for money.

there are certain grounds I will never visit again and it has nothing to do with price they charge more or less a similar amount and I am quite prepared to pay good money. The distinguishing factor for me, is have they made the effort ? You look at grounds like Weston Wylye Four Counties they obviuosly have taken a lot of time and effort to try and get it right so thats where my money goes I appreciate the value they place on my custom and the efforts they go to to try and keep it.

IF they increased their charges it would be a pain but not a factor in my choice in terms of patronising such grounds.I shoot where I know they have consistently done their level best to make it a good experience, they dont always get it right but I KNOW they always try to

 

[ExSCA]

What 'clouter said -he even had punctuation this time!

We shoot where it's good, not where it's cheap. If the two coincide, that's a happy moment.

 

[clayclouter]

Punctuation is for cissies!! take a deep breath and read!!!

 

[Mr Potter]

Thats not strictly true.

Registered competition courses at Worsley are set by a top class champion shooter who's services are bought in for the job. Thus producing top quality competition shoots appreciated by many.

I also know that the price of clays have recently risen, and colours generally cost more than blacks.

There are many cost elements which go towards the cost of a thrown clay. It is nieve in the extreme to assume or suggest that because ground A can put on a registered competition for twenty odd quid that all grounds should or even could follow suit.

webber

John,

Agree that Worsley targets have been set for the last two comps by an expert but what you probably don't realise is that they had to do something drastic as previous comps there had been particularly poor, uninspiring, repetitive targets with many trap breakdowns and, on occasion, less than helpful responses from some of the ground staff. I, along with a considerable number of regular competition shooters, would never have graced the place with our presence if the management hadn't engaged the services of a "name" to set the targets and the fact that name was Brian Clegg did put an extra 30 or 40 entries onto that 1st shoot.

Brian (Clegg) has made a difference, the targets are better, a lot better but he was coming from a very low starting point. He was somewhat handicapped it appears by the selection of colours available in the clays he had to use. (Very few orange/yellow clays for a ground set predominantly in a wood - you couldn't make it up).

I think Brian and the new ground manager (Mike?) also got a grip with the trap issues, I didn't see any breakdowns and very few no birds on Sunday, whereas on previous visits they seemed to be in plague proportions. So a good set of targets but still room for improvement.

Cost of clays, if they have gone up they will have gone up for everyone and I doubt if you or I would ever know how much grounds that are buying by the hundreds of thousand are paying but it won't be the rate that a few hundred cost from the local farm store or cartridge retailer, if I were to make an educated guess it would be less than £3 per hundred!

I know what the going rate for CPSA qualified referees are but there are very, very few registered shoots that I go to that employ all qualified refs, some none, most a mixture. It now appears that some grounds are paying refs in kind not cash and that can only mean more savings to the ground owner.

I certainly agree that grounds can charge what they like or what they feel the local market will stand and ultimately us shooters can vote with their feet, that was about to happen at Worsley until Brian popped up, if the word hadn't got out that he was setting the course in February the numbers would have been well down. That wouldn't have been the cost but the deadly combination, poor targets at high cost.

Unfortunately clay shooting is an expensive sport, ranging from shooting a little local club shoot once a fortnight or once a month, through weekly registered hundred birders (maybe even two or three every Sunday) onto entering all national and international championships in all 4 corners of the globe. That final option is restricted to the well off, they might not think they are well off but to the  man on the Clapham omnibus they are wealthy. This is true of those who shoot the sporting disciplines, English, FITASC & Compak, presume it's the same for those who indulge in the other disciplines.

I shoot virtually every Sunday of the year at registered sporting shoots, where I decide to go each week is NOT dictated by the entry fee, the primary considerations are distance and perceived target quality, I often drive past one ground to one 20+ miles further because oI think the targets are better at the further ground.  The one I drive past has great facilities, superb clubhouse decent food, the further one has virtually no facilities, small cabin and barely edible food, the entry fees are the same at both.  There are a number of great grounds at the 120+ miles away which I don't often go to just on the basis they are too much in terms of time & fuel costs.  Unless you drive a Citroen C1, fuel is the biggest single cost to the average sporting shooter, we are all over a barrel there and it's the same with entry fees.  I don't smile when I pay my fuel bill and I don't smile when some grounds charge over the odds to enter their comp.

I'll repeat what I said earlier, there is a huge difference between affordability and value for money.

Mr Potter  

 

[Lock Stock & Barrel]

Some valid points there Andy - but allow me to pick just one:

I'll repeat what I said earlier, there is a huge difference between affordability and value for money.

Affordability is an objective issue - it can be answered with a simple, black-n-white, yes or no. You either have the funds, or you don't (and that's not a value judgement on the person answering the question, merely simple mathematics).

Value for money is a completely subjective issue and open to the interpretation of the individual paying the piper.

By way of hypothetical example to illustrate both points: "I'm going to sell you a fully-spec'd, top-of-the-range Range Rover, only got 300 miles on the clock from factory... for £7K"

Is it perceived value for money? I suspect most people would say 'yes'. Subjective.

Affordability: can [the hypothetical person we're asking] afford it...? That's where simple budget and mathematics comes into play. Objective.